state of your HS fields

[Coach11]

You're busy argueing law, while I'm stating reality. Laws quite often have merit and validity on their side. But when they meet the cold hard facts of reality, don't mean squat.

Here in my neck of the wood, we have the exact opposite situation. The girls softball facility would be considered better than the boys baseball field. It is its own stand alone encampment. It's drainage system is the best in the town. It is fully enclosed. Aside from the local Little League program, only the varsity softball team uses it. It has had a scoreboard for the past 20 years. While the boys baseball field is only this year getting a scoreboard. (Thanks to the donation of said Little League program.) It is not enclosed. The boys have to stand portable fences prior to each game, and remain to take them down at games end. The field is part of a larger complex, which includes a mens softball diamond in right field. The complex is used year round for soccer, football, mens softball and mens baseball. Both school and rec programs practice and play and destroy the field throughout the year.

Now according to the law, I should be able to fight for equal treatment of the boys. But being the realist that I am, I understand that with field space being at the premium that it is, it would take a ridiculous amount of time, energy, resources and big fact green cash to redesign and configure the local complex to accomodate such a request. And in the end, some programs will have to be modified, or cut altogether because there just aint enough green space in this town to ensure perfect conditions for every sport that anybody in town might want to participate in.

Helluva lot more kids....boys and girls, of all ages....using the complex to play soccer than there are varsity baseball players. So, only somebody whose sole agenda was baseball would try argue for the letter of the law.

[Iluvblue]

You're busy argueing law, while I'm stating reality. Laws quite often have merit and validity on their side. But when they meet the cold hard facts of reality, don't mean squat.



The law doesnt mean squat? What it means is that the schools have had 40 years to bring things up to where they should be, and for the most part I think things are pretty equal. But.... softball fields are a place where things are not even close to equal. And the schools have not always been in the tight financial times they are in now. So you can chose to do nothing, i will fight to get the girls what they need.

And the schools can either comply with the LAW, or lose their arses.

[Coach11]

You're busy argueing law, while I'm stating reality. Laws quite often have merit and validity on their side. But when they meet the cold hard facts of reality, don't mean squat.



The law doesnt mean squat? What it means is that the schools have had 40 years to bring things up to where they should be, and for the most part I think things are pretty equal. But.... softball fields are a place where things are not even close to equal. And the schools have not always been in the tight financial times they are in now. So you can chose to do nothing, i will fight to get the girls what they need.

And the schools can either comply with the LAW, or lose their arses.

So....who exactly wins, when the schools "lose their arses"?

I think trying to level the playing field (pun intended) is a noble cause.

I just disagree with the manner in which you choose to do it.

I believe a less aggressive approach, making smaller more gradual changes, makes more sense.

Fewer unintended casualties as a result as well.

[Iluvblue]

Downey HS in Modesto has had fields that are as bad as some JR high fiedl for well over 25 years. So how gradual an approach would you prefer?

I went to the schools, and they pretty much dismissed my claims in hopes that I would disappear.

When they kicked us off the baseball field 2 years ago when we were just trying to use their outfield grass since our field was being used by soccer, that pretty much put me on my crusade.


Bottom line is that these large districts have a title IX compliance officer that is supposed to ensure they are in compliance. They arent doing their job.... so someone will do it for them.

[Jammed]

The reality is that Title IX has teeth when used. The people who lose when you are armed with Title IX are those who disregard it. School and district administrators should know better and have no where to hide or cry ignorance.

In a newer community in San Diego, the County park had baseball fields. The new community started LL and the a girls LL. When folks realized no one else played Girls LL, they decided to start an ASA rec league.

LL gave them hell. Rationed field times, refused access to snackbar built on County land.

The Girls league hired an attorney and spent 5K+ fighting with LL. It took the threat of Title IX to get LL to budge, but only because someone with 3 brain cells at the County realized thy could be facing a lawsuit. LL still said no access to the snackbar and even the cages, but the County explained to LL that since the structures were permanent and on County owned land, Title IX applied. The LL pres wasan attorney and knew this, but didnt care. It even applied to the funds that LL took in to name the fields after sponsors.

One day while the fight was still ongoing I was prepping a field and the VP of the LL started talking to me. The topic of LL vs ASA came up. The guy was nice, but clueless. He didnt understand why the girls couldnt just play LL. He didnt realize I was a softball coach and dad of two girls. I explained to him that the girls had taken the wrong approach and wasted $5k. He said "Yeah, pretty stupid for them to think they will win".

I told him, no, they were wrong because all they needed to do was stop playing nice and let a dad of two girls who doesnt have a kid in LL sue and clean their clock.

I have no idea whether that resonated with any of them or not, but shortly afterward they began to act in good faith.

The point of this is that you ignore Title IX at your own peril.

ILB, my kid's HS fields are pretty good. The district gets it and does what they can most of the time, even though because we are in California, our schools are broke. Gray Davis gave that money to the prison guards.

[Coach11]

Downey HS in Modesto has had fields that are as bad as some JR high fiedl for well over 25 years. So how gradual an approach would you prefer?

Well that depends. What improvements and suggestions have you and the others concerned been trying make for the past 25 yrs.?

Have you come up with some other location to set the softball field? If so, how much will it cost? Where will that money come from?
Or perhaps you have a plan for relocating the soccer team(s)? How much will that cost? Where is that money coming from?

Forcing the school to come into compliance with Title IX sounds like a great cause and worthy of your fight. But unless they are intentionally ignoring easy and affordable alternatives that would put them in compliance, some other program...be it athletic or academic ....will surely suffer.

[Iluvblue]

Well that depends. What improvements and suggestions have you and the others concerned been trying make for the past 25 yrs.?


Well seeing how I was a HS Student 25 years ago and had no daughters, I probably thought like most males did, I didnt care about the state of the softball fields. But seeing how the district has people getting paid to address these problems, they should have come up with a solution many years ago.

Have you come up with some other location to set the softball field? If so, how much will it cost? Where will that money come from?

Who knows how much it will cost, it wont be cheap. We arent talking about 1 school, we are talking about 4.


Or perhaps you have a plan for relocating the soccer team(s)? How much will that cost? Where is that money coming from?



I suggest we put the soccer teams on the baseball fields. Those outfields are plenty big enough.


Forcing the school to come into compliance with Title IX sounds like a great cause and worthy of your fight. But unless they are intentionally ignoring easy and affordable alternatives that would put them in compliance, some other program...be it athletic or academic ....will surely suffer.


I find it HILARIOUS that districts that are in violation of the law, that you somehow find it wrong to "Force" them into compliance with something they are already REQUIRED to be in compliance with.

[ScubaGuy]

I deal with the Fields in Delhi. So far I have put dugout covers on all 4 dugouts. Repaired the scoreboards and maintain the fields 11 months a year. I would say the fields are comparable to the boys fields but mostly because I take it apon myself to maintain the fields for both Rec use and HS use.

[Coach11]

Well that depends. What improvements and suggestions have you and the others concerned been trying make for the past 25 yrs.?


Well seeing how I was a HS Student 25 years ago and had no daughters, I probably thought like most males did, I didnt care about the state of the softball fields. But seeing how the district has people getting paid to address these problems, they should have come up with a solution many years ago.

Have you come up with some other location to set the softball field? If so, how much will it cost? Where will that money come from?

Who knows how much it will cost, it wont be cheap. We arent talking about 1 school, we are talking about 4.


Or perhaps you have a plan for relocating the soccer team(s)? How much will that cost? Where is that money coming from?



I suggest we put the soccer teams on the baseball fields. Those outfields are plenty big enough.


Forcing the school to come into compliance with Title IX sounds like a great cause and worthy of your fight. But unless they are intentionally ignoring easy and affordable alternatives that would put them in compliance, some other program...be it athletic or academic ....will surely suffer.


I find it HILARIOUS that districts that are in violation of the law, that you somehow find it wrong to "Force" them into compliance with something they are already REQUIRED to be in compliance with.

And I find it hilarious that you can be so narrow minded that an issue you haven't concerned yourself with for the past 25 years you suddenly believe must be rectified NOW! Because suddenly it affects you personally. (Well....your daughter really. And to what degree is a matter of opinion.)

And for the record, I never said it was wrong to want them to be in compliance. I'm just a reasonable person who understands that the world in which we live is imperfect. And no amount of lawsuits will ever change that.

So instead of acting like you're doing something about the situation and putting some lawyer to work, why not actually role up your sleeves and be productive. Organize a community group to work with the district and find some solutions. Raise money. Find volunteers. Get donors.

A lawsuit will last years and waste money better spent on improving the fields. In the matter of time it takes to win the suit, you could have the varsity softball field in better condition than the baseball field.

We don't disagree on the right and wrong....just in how to go about it.

[6to4to3]

This will not and should not be a case where lawyers get involved and "sue" people. The Dept of Education's Office of Civil Rights has staff (Federal Employees - i.e. Lawyers) that have the sole purpose in their jobs to address these types of things. If you file a complaint with them they MUST investigate. If, in the course of their investigation, they find substantial facts to warrant further investigation they will. If they find your complaint to be without warrant it will be dismissed.

Not a case of being sued unless after a complaint is filed and subsequently dismissed and the person filing the complaint wants to put it in front of a judge then files a civil action law suit. In most of these cases around CA it is the CA Women's Law Center www.cwlc.org is at the front of the pack. they take cases as "advocates" when they think the case is warranted and only after they investigate the claim on their own. After that if they chose to file a suit their goal is to make the districts comply with the law. In their cases they file for injunctive (sp?) relief otherwise known as attorney fees from the district. IF and only if they win their case in the eyes of the judge presiding over the case will the advocate lawyers get $ and not much at that.

the overwhelming and repetitive theme of this thread is ignorance. don't take that to mean anything other than what that word means, not knowing. Do yourself a favor and do some reading and learn what is going on here. It wasn't that long ago that women couldn't vote and blacks couldn't eat where whites ate. Someone noticed that that was wrong and started a fight for equality, which is still working it's way out today.

Hell, take your opinion out of it. If your daughter is old enough to understand some of this talk to her about the facts and ask her opinion. Ask her mother, your Grandmother, your Mom... My gut tells me they will have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other. Then you have taught your daughter a valuable lesson on determining her opinion and moving to action (if need be) based on the facts and only after determining what those facts are. Facts without opinions!