NorCal
Nor Cal To Play Softball in Italy "America's Team"
48 posts
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I think it is a great opportunity for the coaches and players involved, but a coach still has a responsibility to look out for their WHOLE team. Is it in the best interest of the ASA team to have a girl play with you, and then miss the most important tournament of the year? I would have to say NO to that.
- luv2teachthegame
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:09 pm
Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
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artomatic - Premium Member
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- Location: Nearest Ogggi's
Sporty
Gotta remember Darter has had it out for KJ from Day 1. It is pretty transparent any time her name is brought up... I have never understood why it is a bad thing if someone makes money in business. Klien did it this last year and everyone wanted to grant her Sainthood. Unless you have never sent your daughter to a lesson or clinic with someone who has played the game, I wouldn't play the making money off of softball is bad card. There are plenty of people making money giving lessons out there. I think there are even people out there who make money helping with college recruiting.
ILB
IMO this completely different from a coach getting his team qualified then saying oh I am going on Vacation. I get the point you are trying to make however, try outs are a week from now Coaches, teams, etc... would be well aware of your plans.
As a coach I would not pass on that stud that will help me get where we want to go as a team. It would suck to go to Nats with out one of your studs but I do agree this is a team sport and If you can't win with out your #1 pitcher or SS you need to develop some pitching and another Short Stop. What happens if she quits after you qualify for any reason or breaks an ankle sliding into the bag?
Will teams stop using guest players at Nationals as well. As a player will your coach guarantee you are the starting whatever at Nat's. I have seen plenty of teams pick up guest players for Nat's and the starting whatever becomes the #2 for the week behind that guest player.
Can a coach guarantee a player they will even be going to Nationals? This teams knows they are going to Italy. This team is not hoping they will qualify. I just think there are to many what if's to keep my daughter from having the chance to do this. I will be at try outs with mine next week.
As for exposure this has nothing to do with exposure and everything to do with the experience.
Is there any guarantee that your daughter even gets looked at if you go to Nationals PGF or ASA? No! If you want exposure I still think one of Darter's idea's getting exposure is a good idea.
From an old post on HB
Gotta remember Darter has had it out for KJ from Day 1. It is pretty transparent any time her name is brought up... I have never understood why it is a bad thing if someone makes money in business. Klien did it this last year and everyone wanted to grant her Sainthood. Unless you have never sent your daughter to a lesson or clinic with someone who has played the game, I wouldn't play the making money off of softball is bad card. There are plenty of people making money giving lessons out there. I think there are even people out there who make money helping with college recruiting.
ILB
IMO this completely different from a coach getting his team qualified then saying oh I am going on Vacation. I get the point you are trying to make however, try outs are a week from now Coaches, teams, etc... would be well aware of your plans.
As a coach I would not pass on that stud that will help me get where we want to go as a team. It would suck to go to Nats with out one of your studs but I do agree this is a team sport and If you can't win with out your #1 pitcher or SS you need to develop some pitching and another Short Stop. What happens if she quits after you qualify for any reason or breaks an ankle sliding into the bag?
Will teams stop using guest players at Nationals as well. As a player will your coach guarantee you are the starting whatever at Nat's. I have seen plenty of teams pick up guest players for Nat's and the starting whatever becomes the #2 for the week behind that guest player.
Can a coach guarantee a player they will even be going to Nationals? This teams knows they are going to Italy. This team is not hoping they will qualify. I just think there are to many what if's to keep my daughter from having the chance to do this. I will be at try outs with mine next week.
As for exposure this has nothing to do with exposure and everything to do with the experience.
Is there any guarantee that your daughter even gets looked at if you go to Nationals PGF or ASA? No! If you want exposure I still think one of Darter's idea's getting exposure is a good idea.
From an old post on HB
Old Darter wrote:454...best thing to do to get your young 16u's seen by College coaches is......
Send them to the summer camp put on by the school the wish to attend. Virtually every PAC10 school (except USC, no softball there) has a summer camp for travel ball players. I'm sure most other schools do as well, it's both fundraiser and recruiting opportunity.
The big difference: At an exposure tournament, the coach may see a couple of innings, a full game if they already know DD. One bad game and that might be it. At the camp 1) the coach gets a prolonged look over several days, so if DD has a bad day there's time time correct, and 2) you're actually paying for the coach to pay attention to and help your daughter (this also give a hint at coach-ability of DD).
Added Bonus: Going to the same schools camp for more than one year allows the coach to become familiar with DD (hey, you were here last year!) and show the coach there is an ongoing interest in their program.
- Sftball Junkie
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:00 am
As a coach I would not pass on that stud that will help me get where we want to go as a team.
I would pass. Imagine the kid is your SS. You work hard all year to get that kid to play the position, and then when the team needs her at nationals, you now need to stick someone else in that position with very little time playing that position. I just dont rotate kids in that position. My starter is getting 80%(or more) of the innings at ss. It isnt a right or wrong way here, it is just how I do things, and I would pass on a kid that cant be there during a major tourney, regardless if there is no sure thing we will be at nationals.
It would suck to go to Nats with out one of your studs but I do agree this is a team sport and If you can't win with out your #1 pitcher or SS you need to develop some pitching and another Short Stop.
Do you really think you can "Develop" pitching at the 16 or 18g level in 8 short weeks to replace the big stud you have? If you could do that, you wouldnt need that stud as we would just keep developing them. And honestly, TEAMS dont develop pitchers. They come to you with a skill set, and hopefully you are able to enhance that kids abilities by calling good games, teaching her the mental toughness to be a great pitcher, but she better already have the SKILLS when she arrives on your team.
Ask the Scorcerer if they would have won Gold nationals a few years back if Rickets wasnt in the circle. Maybe Phil could have just developed another Rickets in a few short weeks??
Or the Sting with Waljasper? I dont think they would have had a chance without their stud pitcher, no matter who were the rest of the players. And before people try to blast me, that is no knock on any of those great players that played on those 2 teams, it is just the reality of fastpitch.... those stud pitchers are difference makes that can not be replaced.
there is no right or wrong here. Different coaches will have different opinions and that is fine. For my teams, I just wouldnt let it happen. And if a player sprung it on me last minute, I can promise you that I would not have the kid back after Summer, no matter how good she is.
I would pass. Imagine the kid is your SS. You work hard all year to get that kid to play the position, and then when the team needs her at nationals, you now need to stick someone else in that position with very little time playing that position. I just dont rotate kids in that position. My starter is getting 80%(or more) of the innings at ss. It isnt a right or wrong way here, it is just how I do things, and I would pass on a kid that cant be there during a major tourney, regardless if there is no sure thing we will be at nationals.
It would suck to go to Nats with out one of your studs but I do agree this is a team sport and If you can't win with out your #1 pitcher or SS you need to develop some pitching and another Short Stop.
Do you really think you can "Develop" pitching at the 16 or 18g level in 8 short weeks to replace the big stud you have? If you could do that, you wouldnt need that stud as we would just keep developing them. And honestly, TEAMS dont develop pitchers. They come to you with a skill set, and hopefully you are able to enhance that kids abilities by calling good games, teaching her the mental toughness to be a great pitcher, but she better already have the SKILLS when she arrives on your team.
Ask the Scorcerer if they would have won Gold nationals a few years back if Rickets wasnt in the circle. Maybe Phil could have just developed another Rickets in a few short weeks??
Or the Sting with Waljasper? I dont think they would have had a chance without their stud pitcher, no matter who were the rest of the players. And before people try to blast me, that is no knock on any of those great players that played on those 2 teams, it is just the reality of fastpitch.... those stud pitchers are difference makes that can not be replaced.
there is no right or wrong here. Different coaches will have different opinions and that is fine. For my teams, I just wouldnt let it happen. And if a player sprung it on me last minute, I can promise you that I would not have the kid back after Summer, no matter how good she is.
- Iluvblue
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:05 pm
I usually agree with you ILB and fully support the team loyalty concept, but if a kid's goal is to have fun and to accrue a wealth of experiences playing the game, then she should be allowed to freely pursue opportunities. She's got 7-8 years with a shot of playing at PGF Nationals, but may only have 1 year where she's got a chance to play internationally.
Taken in that context, the truly great coaches wish their players the best and head into battle with the roster they've got.
I don't know whether my DD will ever make your team, but if she does and then has a chance to go play in Italy, I bet she'd go.
Taken in that context, the truly great coaches wish their players the best and head into battle with the roster they've got.
I don't know whether my DD will ever make your team, but if she does and then has a chance to go play in Italy, I bet she'd go.
- SoftballSoccerDad
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:08 pm
Taken in that context, the truly great coaches wish their players the best and head into battle with the roster they've got.
I agree and this is what we ALWAYS do. We held our tryouts and we take what comes. We dont sit around waiting for the superstar to appear. And in this case, we would take our roster (minus the kid that wants to go to Italy) and we would play.
Like I said, there is no right or wrong. Different teams would have different opinions... that is just mine.
By the way, if I were the kid, Id be gone in a heartbeat and be off to Italy. I can handle one Summer of not playing with a particular team:)
I agree and this is what we ALWAYS do. We held our tryouts and we take what comes. We dont sit around waiting for the superstar to appear. And in this case, we would take our roster (minus the kid that wants to go to Italy) and we would play.
Like I said, there is no right or wrong. Different teams would have different opinions... that is just mine.
By the way, if I were the kid, Id be gone in a heartbeat and be off to Italy. I can handle one Summer of not playing with a particular team:)
- Iluvblue
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:05 pm
Well Blue one thing we do agree on is If a Player sprung this on me last minute she would never play for me again..
and no I dont think you can develop a pitcher or short stop in the short time we have them in 16 or 18g... Or in 14u as is the case here... All I meant by that is more rotation in those spots if you new you had one that wouldn't be there at the end. I always did things a little different then most though. My pitchers rarely pitched back to back games. I can count on one hand the amount of times I had a girl pitch more then 2 games straight and I rotated those key infield spots as much as I could so if a girl got hurt or moved on the team was still ready to go forward.
Like you said everyone has a different method to the madness tho
and no I dont think you can develop a pitcher or short stop in the short time we have them in 16 or 18g... Or in 14u as is the case here... All I meant by that is more rotation in those spots if you new you had one that wouldn't be there at the end. I always did things a little different then most though. My pitchers rarely pitched back to back games. I can count on one hand the amount of times I had a girl pitch more then 2 games straight and I rotated those key infield spots as much as I could so if a girl got hurt or moved on the team was still ready to go forward.
Like you said everyone has a different method to the madness tho
- Sftball Junkie
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:00 am
I am in 100% agreement with ILB on all of his posts in this thread. Players come to teams looking to improve and be seen. In return, the teams require commitment. It is mutually beneficial. Until one side stops. And what about the rest of the players on the TB team, who have also committed to the team and each other? Then Suzie says, um, I won't be at Nationals. What?
Now, if the player in question is going to represent the US as a member of the USA Softball National team, different story. Maybe one or two players in the whole region. Lifelong dream to play for USA Softball. But to represent All American Softball School from West Sacramento, Ca.? KJ, take the players already on your JO teams, but don't weaken the others.
"Gotta remember Darter has had it out for KJ from Day 1. It is pretty transparent any time her name is brought up"
So just to be clear....My issue with Miss Jackson has nothing to do with her running her school and making money. My issue with her is that she was the JO commish for GSSA while AT THE SAME TIME sponsoring teams through her school playing in the GSSA. This was a huge conflict of interest that more than once caused at the very least an appearance of impropriety. It's okay to run a school and make money. Hell, it's even okay to sponsor ASA JO teams! Just don't be the JO commish. We have all seen what happens -has happened - when the regulatees are also the regulators. Thankfully, GSSA FINALLY removed her. But while we're on the subject, I don't like the way she pressures kids and their parents to use her services. I have personally seen her and her representatives attempt, mid-season, to recruit players, coaches....hell, entire teams...to move to All American. You are right, I have no respect for her for valid reasons.
"It's a conspiracy against PGF"
I don't care if it is PGF or ASA, since ASA Gold is the exact same week this year as PGF. So get off the "this is an anti-PGF conspiracy" criticism. You are asking a kid to miss the biggest recruiting week of the year. Go to Italy after college like everyone else. Or go now, but be prepared for the consequences that decision may have.
"If my daughter's coach would have such an issue with her missing PGF that he would not allow her to play for him the entire season I would find a coach who get's it."
Okay, he's coaching that team you didn't want your daughter on last year because they weren't competitive enough.
"Is there any guarantee that your daughter even gets looked at if you go to Nationals PGF or ASA? No!
HELL YES! If, of course, they do their homework and make contacts with the college coaches!
"If you want exposure I still think one of Darter's idea's getting exposure is a good idea. "
Going to the camps is one of the critical tools in the quiver. It get's the coaches attention and may get coach interested enough to follow the player further. I'm not sure how a college coach who has been following a kid for a year or so would react when, at either ASA or PGF nationals, the coach sees the kids team playing without her. "Hey TB coach, where's Suzie?" TB coach: "She took off to play in Italy and left us to develop a new Suzie just before Nationals."
"Well Blue one thing we do agree on is If a Player sprung this on me last minute she would never play for me again.."
Would it have been better to tell you at the beginning of the season or at tryouts? "Hey Coach, I won't be here for Nationals, but you should still give me all kinds of playing time, especially in Colorado". Really? Would you keep that kid on your team? Why?
Sorry, in the end, to me, this is just a way for KJ to recruit kids to her college prep services. It's about marketing KJ and AAS, Inc.
Now, if the player in question is going to represent the US as a member of the USA Softball National team, different story. Maybe one or two players in the whole region. Lifelong dream to play for USA Softball. But to represent All American Softball School from West Sacramento, Ca.? KJ, take the players already on your JO teams, but don't weaken the others.
"Gotta remember Darter has had it out for KJ from Day 1. It is pretty transparent any time her name is brought up"
So just to be clear....My issue with Miss Jackson has nothing to do with her running her school and making money. My issue with her is that she was the JO commish for GSSA while AT THE SAME TIME sponsoring teams through her school playing in the GSSA. This was a huge conflict of interest that more than once caused at the very least an appearance of impropriety. It's okay to run a school and make money. Hell, it's even okay to sponsor ASA JO teams! Just don't be the JO commish. We have all seen what happens -has happened - when the regulatees are also the regulators. Thankfully, GSSA FINALLY removed her. But while we're on the subject, I don't like the way she pressures kids and their parents to use her services. I have personally seen her and her representatives attempt, mid-season, to recruit players, coaches....hell, entire teams...to move to All American. You are right, I have no respect for her for valid reasons.
"It's a conspiracy against PGF"
I don't care if it is PGF or ASA, since ASA Gold is the exact same week this year as PGF. So get off the "this is an anti-PGF conspiracy" criticism. You are asking a kid to miss the biggest recruiting week of the year. Go to Italy after college like everyone else. Or go now, but be prepared for the consequences that decision may have.
"If my daughter's coach would have such an issue with her missing PGF that he would not allow her to play for him the entire season I would find a coach who get's it."
Okay, he's coaching that team you didn't want your daughter on last year because they weren't competitive enough.
"Is there any guarantee that your daughter even gets looked at if you go to Nationals PGF or ASA? No!
HELL YES! If, of course, they do their homework and make contacts with the college coaches!
"If you want exposure I still think one of Darter's idea's getting exposure is a good idea. "
Going to the camps is one of the critical tools in the quiver. It get's the coaches attention and may get coach interested enough to follow the player further. I'm not sure how a college coach who has been following a kid for a year or so would react when, at either ASA or PGF nationals, the coach sees the kids team playing without her. "Hey TB coach, where's Suzie?" TB coach: "She took off to play in Italy and left us to develop a new Suzie just before Nationals."
"Well Blue one thing we do agree on is If a Player sprung this on me last minute she would never play for me again.."
Would it have been better to tell you at the beginning of the season or at tryouts? "Hey Coach, I won't be here for Nationals, but you should still give me all kinds of playing time, especially in Colorado". Really? Would you keep that kid on your team? Why?
Sorry, in the end, to me, this is just a way for KJ to recruit kids to her college prep services. It's about marketing KJ and AAS, Inc.
- Old Darter
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:25 pm
OH MY SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! you mean to tell me a coach or member of All American recruited a player, another coach or Even a team. Well now I see where your coming from. None of that ever happened prior to the big bad KJ monster showing up on the seen. Thank the Lord that has all stopped!!!
Did you ever think maybe there was another reason for her volunteering her time as the JO like she was the most qualified person for the job or maybe even the only one who put her name in the hat. I see people have just been beating the door down to fill that spot, I am sure it has taken 9 months and counting to fill because they are trying to get to the bottom of the hundreds of aps they have... Did GSSA actually announce that they removed her??? If memory serves they stated she has taken another position. Maybe she got tired of spending the time it takes to do that non paying job she did for so long and stepped down... Didn't you just write in a post something to the effect that anyone who would volunteer their time deserves a thank you???
I will let her know when I see her next week at tryouts you said Thanks!!!
Did you ever think maybe there was another reason for her volunteering her time as the JO like she was the most qualified person for the job or maybe even the only one who put her name in the hat. I see people have just been beating the door down to fill that spot, I am sure it has taken 9 months and counting to fill because they are trying to get to the bottom of the hundreds of aps they have... Did GSSA actually announce that they removed her??? If memory serves they stated she has taken another position. Maybe she got tired of spending the time it takes to do that non paying job she did for so long and stepped down... Didn't you just write in a post something to the effect that anyone who would volunteer their time deserves a thank you???
I will let her know when I see her next week at tryouts you said Thanks!!!
- Sftball Junkie
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:00 am
Please...don't. People volunteer for a lot of things for a lot of reasons, not always out of the goodness of their heart. This volunteer position, if it really was volunteer, certainly helped her and her business make money. AS for filling the vacancy, the fact they haven't and that the world keeps rolling says that maybe the position wasn't needed.
You are right, I don't like her or the way she does business. Has/does open recruitment occurr(ed)? Sure. Doesn't make it ethical. Sorry, I find that to be an issue toME. Always will be. And because of that I will always question her motives when events like this arise.
You all understand my POV on the subject, no need to for me to discourse further on the subject.
You are right, I don't like her or the way she does business. Has/does open recruitment occurr(ed)? Sure. Doesn't make it ethical. Sorry, I find that to be an issue toME. Always will be. And because of that I will always question her motives when events like this arise.
You all understand my POV on the subject, no need to for me to discourse further on the subject.
- Old Darter
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:25 pm
48 posts
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