Gun control

[fastpitchdad05]

FP, my apologies - being rational is not something i do too well at anymore. However, lets suppose you and I are sitting in a coffee shop talking about this issue. Can you explain to me how passing any kind of law regarding gun control - is going to cause the criminals, by definition - non followers of laws - to turn in, or quit using , or do anything but laugh at the people who do follow these laws. This isnt England or some country where the queen blows a whistle or whatever she does and everyone obeys. This is the country that all of the people who dont put up with other people's crap, immigrated to over the last 521 years. And another big issue is this - I have lived in and spent a lot of time in big cities, NYC, Phoenix, Chicago, Cleveland, etc and spent the much happier part of my life away from those places - the people who live in those places are very different - not bad - not stupid - but different. The people who live around George West Texas are as different as night and day from the people who lives in Cleveland Ohio.

Donnie,
No apology needed. You have shown greater restraint and rationality following your son's ordeal than I ever could. I can't even begin to imagine what the last couple of months have been like.

I'm certainly not advocating the ban of firearms to law-abiding citizens and the truth is I really don't know what the solution is. I'm just hoping that someone can figure it out because it hurts me to see the anguished faces of the victims loved-ones plastered all over the TV and internet.

Along that subject, I have a theory that the media attention is the root problem and I'm not sure there is anything that can be done.

These mass murders multiplied exponentially with the increase in media coverage thru TV, radio and of course, the spawn of the information highway (to hell).

We never would have heard about these stories (or heard just a little) when we were kids. Now it's in our faces 24/7 ad nauseum.

These are copycat mass-killings (IMO). But what's the answer...shut down the internet? Ban TV?

The solution is probably the same solution for most crimes...prevention thru proper education.

The problem is what's the POTUS going to do...come on national TV and tell the country that a lot of them are horrible parents and if they'd just talk to and be there for their kids that this issue would all but disappear (Don't I wish!)?

No...he'd be laughed out of office. So now we have what we have...and it's a mess.

[DonnieS]

Along that subject, I have a theory that the media attention is the root problem and I'm not sure there is anything that can be done.

I read a suggestion somewhere that the press would not publicize the killers - at all - no name - nothing - but that would require discipline and social responsibility on the only profession rated lower than attorneys. It wouldnt happen. And I agree that getting attention is if not the root problem - is a major portion of the problem.

[as the world turns]

The 2nd Amendment is not negotiable. Freedom is not perfect, unfortunately, it has a price. Safety = oppression.

[Pale Rider]

Im sure most murders were with a gun...not being saracastic but before the gun I'd imagine most were with sword etc...But of that 75% you mentioned, how many were hood rat murders?, murders nonetheless but more as a sort of warfare...Guns arent their problem, nor will they surrender them...
Latest one in Calif....Reports say kid was about to be kicked out etc...why the hell was he allowed in, in the first place?...and the CT thing...as horrible as it was...where are the eyewitnesses?...he didnt kill everybody...eyewitnesses at Columbine, VT...had plenty of eyewitnesses....none in CT?...even Rambo didn't kill everybody...also initial reports said there were 2 shooters, and that one had escaped?...also heard reports that the Bushmaster was in trunk of car..not used...
Sort of odd...kinda like Benghazi...no eyewitnesses have been allowed to make statements?...Uh?

I am still a Soldier...retiring soon...and TBH...I have no desire to own an AR...IMHO a good pump 870 with short barrel and BB shot is a much better home defense weapon and my 1911 is way better thna dialing 911...but...I do have a problem with a Govt, sidestepping law....trying to seize weapons...from legal law abiding citizens...I have a &real^ serious problem with that....Why does a government fear legal, law abiding citizens possessing semi auto firearms?...JFK was shot with an Italian Military POS rifle...Bobby was shot with a POS pistol...MLK was shot by a Remington Model 760 Pump 30-06...Malcolm X was shot in the face with a 12 gauge double barrel....McVeigh used fertilizer...Jihadis used Boeing 767s...Germans used zyklon B gas.... Do they think the criminals will stop killing folks? Presidents DD has 11 Armed with automatic weapons (not semi autos) Guards watching their school...Why don't ours deserve some protection...the murder genie has been let loose many years ago...but the only deterrent to a criminal with a gun, is someone also with a gun to defend themselves....

[ontheblack]

Biden suggested today that the POTUS could resort to Executive Order to ban assault weapons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-da ... 43632.html

Someone needs to explain to these folks that Executive Order does not allow the POTUS to enact law. These guys are really struggling with the concept that our Constitution was enacted to prohibit absolute power.

That is not true.

From LexisNexis search: "Most executive orders are issued pursuant to specific statutory delegations of authority from Congress. Like federal statutes, such executive orders have the force and effect of law and preempt inconsistent state law. Federal agencies frequently promulgate regulations to implement the substantive requirements of presidential orders. Thus agency action taken pursuant to a valid executive order may have a significant adverse effect on private interests."

Basically, what it boils down to is that if Congress does not pass legislation to replace the Executive Order or a Federal court does not invalidate the Executive Order, the Executive Order does (for all intents and purposes) become "law".

This is semantics to some degree. Executive Order doesnt become law, but is treated as such. There is a huge difference. The key is the part you quoted here: "issued pursuant to specific statutory delegations of authority from Congress". When EOs are sufficiently challenged, the POTUS makes the argument that his EO stems from some current authority and cites something already enacted. There is nothing on the books that POTUS could cite as authority to support an EO ban on guns as has been suggested this week.

[Dugout Dad]

Good video:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/01/10/CNNs-Morgan-Slams-Down-Constitution-Calls-It-Your-Little-Book
Libs have such contempt towards the Constitution. I think Shapiro did well, but he made a mistake. He allowed and kept calling a AR-15 an "assault weapon". It is not. It is also not military style, it's a rifle.

[jonriv]

There always seem to be some polarization in this debate-much which stems from misuderstanding and ignorance on both sides. My feeling is that there is some common ground and a sensible answer.

First some facts:

1) The vast majority of gun crimes/violence committed in this country are with pistols- the vast majority are obtained illegally.
2) I believe that less than 5% of gun related crimes/incident are committed by members of the NRA

3) "Assault Rifle" is a made up name- Sturm Gewehr" in German(named by Hitler. It the military it is used to describe smaller calibre rifles that were able to fire either semi or fully automatic(current US military M16 have replaced full auto with 3 round bursts. The purpose was to have a multifunction weapon that used lighter bullets(so the soldier could carry more) and replace the various weapons an Infantry unit used (ie WWII M1 garand, Tommy Gun and a BAR) with a single same calibre weapon. Easier to supply. Fully Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated and virtually illegal since the 1930's- media tends to forget this. The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M-16. It, like all civilian "assault rifles" is semi-automatic The Bushmaster is is an AR-15 that was made Assault Ban legal by removing the bayonet holder, flash supressor and some other facets. BTW- most hunting rifles are far more powerful than the .556mm(.223) of the AR-15

4) Connecticut already has an Assault rifle ban(bushmaster was not included) The stats are inconclusive of if tighter gun control works to control crime. Stats are also inconclusive if looser controls and the death penalty control crime better. New York has no real death penalty and the tightest gun laws in the country and has some of the lowest gun murder rates(but Illinois, with similar laws has some of the highest) Texas by contrast-some might sam a polar opposite to NY- has high gun violence rates. Obviously there are other factors that play into this. NY has done a great job from the Guliuani admin(the state has followed as well) of going after criminals and "quality of life" issues. This has helped to lower the amount of illegal guns and to remove these criminals from society. Texas has to deal with being on the Mexican border and all the recent drug trafficking that has brought.

5) Our schools -especially those in the suburbs and rural areas- are woefully lacking in security.

Here's what I think: JMO

1) I think we all can agree that we need to rid the country(as much as possible) of illegal guns, they are obviously the problem. We also need to ensure that only those legally able to have guns can buy them. I would like to make sure felons or crazy people would have a harder time buying. This means background checks(even on private sellers) Strikes me as minor inconvenience for a legitimate gun buyer.

2) New gun purchasers should be required to take some kind of gun safety course. The NRA would be a perfect organization to design such a program. Someone trained and made aware of the true power of these weapons is less likely to use it or have an accident with it.

3) An Assault rile ban is useless- I however do find myself wondering what the need for 30 or even 50 rnd magazines are-not really sure if they should be permitted for civilian use. As Pale Rider said-an AR-15 is not a great home defense weapon(unless you live in some wide open area) a pistol or shotgun is much better. In fact- if you are using a rifle that can fire a bullet- 500- 1200 yards you might have an issue in most suburban neighborhoods. That missed shot at a burgerlar in your house might go through your wall and hit a neighbor or two

4) Go after criminals. Just passing tighter laws or having everyone carry are just not the answer. Look what NYC did- get rid of the criminals and the crime goes down(duh) We need to also do a better job of identifying those with emotional/mental problems and get these people help and/or out of society. All of these recent mass shootings have been by young, isolated and mentally,emotionally disturbed white males- I think we have a pattern we can learn from.

5) We need to beef up security in our schools. Armed security(police would be better) new lockdown procedures. better ways of identifying future threats. Parents must be more involved with their kids(IMO we need more softball-type parents) Kids that are involved in sports or the performing arts are less likely to get in trouble(they do not have time)

[Pale Rider]

I do agree there is a misunderstanding and ignorance...but 99% is on the anti's side...Most of whom have never shot a weapon, much less know what guns do what...LOVE to hear the ones who say, "Who needs a gun that shoots X amount of bullets in X minutes...
Watch Anthony Bourdais with Ted Nugent one episode...Ol Anthony was having a ball wasting ammo with Ted...
Had somebody ask me why I was so paranoid that I carried a pistola in my truck? (completely legal where I live)...Said, Paranoid?...Im not paranoid of anything...I'm on equal footing with those who may wish me harm...not a defenseless victim...Feinstein apparently agrees with me...she is a CCW holder...soooo I guess SHE can be armed...but WE cant?...

They don't know the difference or similarities between a Browning BAR hunting rifle and a AR 15...or the AR15 variants...a 1000 yard match AR is a vastly different piece of equipment than a low end Bushmaster, yet they're the same 'gun'....sorta like a V6 Challenger Vs an RT Challenger...or a better analogy a Mitsubishi Evo vs a Mitsubishi Lancer
Our beloved Attorney General even says in 1996 to 'brainwash' people into hating guns...or guide the lemmings in 2013...
They remind of the Zombie like people on the movie 'The Mummy'..."Imhotep...Imhotep...Imhotep...but insert another name....

[as the world turns]

Just remember - Tyranny always comes in the guise of "protecting us ".......

[PDad]

Can today's semi-automatics be modified to fire full-auto? Seems like that was an issue years ago (i.e. people published guides and/or sold kits), but I haven't heard anything about it lately.