This weekend in DFW

[Joe]

Joe now I know you are Southlake!

You're a winner!!! I am Southlake indeed...My ancestors settled there in the 1700's, built a log cabin, then Bob Jones Park in the early 1800's. DDs from 5 generations... have been playing there ever since...

Seriously Joe or whatever your name is, Get over yourself!

Easier said than done. You see...I followed Tiger to the treatement center in Mississippi recently to work on getting "over myself". It's an addiction you see... one that resulted from years of being the best at what I do...irritating the sh#t out of dueceduece.

Additionally...2 game bracket: back to back games in the loser's bracket sometimes amounts to child abuse.

[pbj2000]

We like 6gg...more time on the dirt...we like stacking the top teams in pool a, mid level in pool b and newbies in pool c...suggestion...take top 3 teams from top pool, 2 tems from mid pool and 1 team from newbie pool?...that gets you 6 teams in single elim bracket...just my .02

It's not about trophies, cause when they get older they get donated to the trashcan.

[dueceduece]

So you won't address the fact that you are behaving in the same manner as the reason you don't like ASA. You might want to listen. I have heard many parents saying the same thing I am. They LIKE the 6gg tournaments but would like to mix it up a little. No one is saying get rid of 6 game guarantee.

As far as child abuse. I have seen alot of teams playing ALOT of games back to back so you can get all of these games in. Not alot of breaks and especially the ones that are one day 6gg. To me that is excessive so don't compare back to back loser bracket to that. The same thing is going on with 6gg tournaments.

[softballmom94]

I agree with parts of several of these posts.

The pool game format is one that we like playing in. Lots of games and lots of time on the field. In 10U, I think it somewhat limits playing time for the weaker players on those teams since in these types of tournments winning is all important and in 10U it is still nice to get those girls some time on the field. In the older divisions I have always told mine that if you don't belong on the field then work till you do. Normally in the 2/2 tournaments the weaker players at least get "some" time on the field in those pool games and the weaker pitchers get some experience. However this is your call as a team and you can choose to go to a different tournament.

I do think that only taking one or two teams to single elim is a mistake. After this weekends results in Southlake, I think it is easy to see that when pools are loaded with good teams anything can happen. No question that the Bombers went through all the "number #1" seeds to win the tournament so they EARNED it! But, IMHO, there were two other teams in that pool that could have done the same. If I heard right (and rumor is always rampant down here) the Blaze was effectively taken out of the tournament when the Bombers' clean up hit a grand slam in the bottom of the +1 inning with two outs. So effectively that could have been the Blaze in that spot and not the Bombers and I would lay odds they had as good a chance of making it to the championship. It doesn't take much more to split the teams into smaller pools so they can finish pool play on Saturday (groups of 5 - so 4 pool games in one day is manageable) and then run a single elim on Sunday that is seeded based on placement in the pool.

This is where Bill and I would agree. At that point you CAN put the better teams in the same pool and tier the pools letting those pool games be more competitive. Then once you set out the bracket the seeds would work themselves out. A one seed from the weaker pool would meet the 4 seed from a stronger pool and the stronger team would pull through even against a weaker one seed.

I do disagree that the 10U teams don't have as much exposure as far as who should be separated where. Ask any of the 10U groups out there and they will tell you who is who. As you can see on these boards, those involved in this age group knew up front that Pool B was a killer and it turned out to be from what I hear.

However, when it is all done at the end of the day, each team gets to pick their own tournaments. So if you don't like the format, there is usually another tournament a few miles down the road you can go play in.

When I look at what is coming up for the 10U girls - Mizuno is going to be a killer. Who is going to set those pools? And REALLY, only taking one from each pool? That is asking a lot from 9, 10, and a few 11 year old girls not to have a single bad hour. Forget afternoon, night, day, weekend... Even at nationals you get one loss and a chance. That is going to be brutal. I can't wait to see what comes out of that one. That is one of those that should be a seeded single elim with at least the top 3 from each pool. I think it is going to be like 6 teams per pool so the top 3 wouldn't be all that bad a choice.

I am sure that Marty is trying to get all the games in within the confines of the fields he has and that was probably where the format came from. He has already taken a lot of crap due to not taking in "other teams" but really... It seems he has the ones that have made a wave at any of the better tournaments. But those girls better bring their A+ game to that one. I hope I can come catch a few games. That one would be worth the trip...LOL!!

[Joe]

So you won't address the fact that you are behaving in the same manner as the reason you don't like ASA. You might want to listen. I have heard many parents saying the same thing I am. They LIKE the 6gg tournaments but would like to mix it up a little. No one is saying get rid of 6 game guarantee.

As far as child abuse. I have seen alot of teams playing ALOT of games back to back so you can get all of these games in. Not alot of breaks and especially the ones that are one day 6gg. To me that is excessive so don't compare back to back loser bracket to that. The same thing is going on with 6gg tournaments.

I disagree...most TDs on the 6gg break up the games so that there's some sort of rest period between games. We've played some 2gg brackets on the loser's side where we're wishing for a loss so we can finally go home...that is, after about 4-5 games in a row.

My dislike for ASA is local only..and because of one old fart in particular. TDs will ultimately do what the market asks of them..and has nothing to do with ASA, VTD or any other. Teams, at whatever skill level, want dirt time right now..and the 6gg meets that desire.

[mstree323]

everybody get paid up and i'll go ahead and draw em.

our tournament is gonna be a draw, but an area oriented one to try to split up the houston, dfw, austin, and other. try to give everybody a look a new people.

i'm gonna take the houston teams and put em all in a hat, the dfw ones etc... and draw from a hat 3 times and put one in each pool.

your down 35, down 45, from dfw, or other. 4 hats, 3 pools. it'll work out.

[softballmom94]

Yes please!! Everyone pay UP!! Many of us want to see the pools and start making a pot (just kidding). Once the pools are set, someone will have to make a new posting for this tournament.

Marty, that paragraph was not aiming at you but at the people complaining they "weren't invited". IMO, there isn't a team out there (southern region wise) not in this tournament that would have a chance at WINNING based on what my family said (she is the one with DD in 10U). There are teams that might win a game or two in the right situation, but win this tournament?? No. Congrats on pulling this kind of tournament together. And the separation of hats is great. I know they get tired of playing the Bombers everytime they travel to Dallas...LOL! Also, the comment about who is doing the pools was meant in the vain of the rest of my post. Separating that group out is tough. The only thing you don't have to worry about is people complaining it is stacked. All the pools will be.

Take care and as soon as you get the pools together, put up a post separately so the debate may begin.

[51sDad]

As a team who is trying to play better teams and improve our level of play, I would prefer for the pools to be loaded up, with the best 6 or 7 teams in one, the mid-level teams in another, and the 2000 and startup teams in another. I know that I am probably in the minority on this, but neither us or a startup team gets much out of a 15-0 walk and error fest, but we get better in a 2-0 or 4-2 pitcher/defensive duel. In my opinion, the bracket is just gravy, and either way, the best team will get there. I do know that we are not playing for qualifying points, so that also give me a different perspective than those teams that are playing to qualify for state and national tournaments. From a family/team perspective, I love the 6GG format, because the times that you are going to play are set in stone and do not depend on the win or loss in the bracket. As a team, I feel that we gain much, much more from playing and losing (and even sometimes winning) close games with very good teams than we gain from winning easily. I know that some 2000 teams compete very well in the mid-level and even the upper level of 10U, and they should be able to express the desire to do so to the TD. I truly believe that a group of 10U teams are out there that would play all A level tourneys if those were offered in order to play intense competition more often, but most of the offerings are at B or Open. Please do not mistake my opinion for arrogance, because we are not an established quality team yet, but the higher level competition that we have played in our last three weekends has made us much better, given us more confidence, and helped us to realize that we are learning as much from the losses as we are from the wins... sometimes more. Thanks.

Bill
99 D-Bat (Savell)

Play friendlies.

[knucklecurve]

I would like to say that when placing teams in pools during a 5 or 6 GG tourney to the single elim. bracket that the TD can do a better job of knowing who the above average teams are, average teams and below average teams. The last thing you want to do is group them up in those specific talent level pools, then the bracket situation which is designed to be of a competitive and closer matched teams would more than likely wind up generating very mismatched bracket games.

My DD's team recently played in a 6 GG, which had 4 pool and went to double elim. and we ended up playing 10 games for the weekend. That is a lot even after being in the winners bracket most of Sunday. I can see the benefits of what VTD is doing.

To follow up on a previous comment in regards to the Mizuno Tourney, with the talent level that is going to be present, the best scenario for all involved would be to have at least two teams from each pool qualify for bracket play. The level of play and competition should allow for this because any two teams from each pool should be able to contend for the Championship game becasue the teams in the field are that strong!

JMO

[Seven's Mom]

This is a thought......
Please dont shoot me.

What if we really did have A tournaments and B tournaments instead of open tournaments? From what I've seen, there really is a huge difference between the top teams and the developing teams, especially at 14U. Sometimes, you just gotta feel sorry for the way some of the developing teams get hammered. They love the game, have some talent, and want to be able to compete. But even at Keller last weekend, some teams struggled to even get a runner on base against the better pitchers. It's got to be pretty hard on their morale to get beaten ??-0 on multiple occasions. I know some of the elite teams look down on these struggling ones, but they deserve a place to play where they can be competitive beyond rec. ball. We all know what that's like around here.

Also the stronger teams, lets say the ones who consider themselves the "elite" and the teams that are consistently placing in these open tournaments, need to be facing each other to really test themselves and improve.

I'm probably being naive, but just a thought. I'm sure you all will give me a million reasons why this won't work.