Travel vs School?

[Stratos]

I enjoy the time off of travel season. You can find me out in right field watching my dd. I try to stay out of the way and let Ramsey/staff manage and coach the team. Although I do show a little exuberance everyonce in awhile. Should be fun this year. Hopefully we put it all together and make a solid run. He has probably no less than 20-25 travel kids. Glad he has to deal with that, I wouldnt touch it with a 10 ft pole But based on his success in TB, I doubt he has to deal with too much from the parents. (I could be wrong). I also try to make the rounds and see all of my travel players during high school.

[Coach11]

Try this one out...our middle school uses the same policy as the high school rules about participation. So they opperate under the no outside sports of the same kind during the season...which means "technically" when my daughter is in 7th grade, she cannot play travel if she wants to play middle school. Currently it is more of a don't ask, don't tell policy, but she is not there yet, so I worry that may be enforced more when she does get there. High school is one thing, but if push comes to shove, I believe MS ball will not be very popular with the travel girls.

I am going to assume that MS ball (in your area) is equivelant to "modified softball" (here in mine).
If that is the case, then I would suggest your daughter not even waste her time, if she is a starting TB player.
Our local Rec league is better organized and more competetive than the modified program. 40 some odd girls split into two teams sharing a schedule.
Thankfully, my daughter only had to endure one season before being called up to JV. I honestly believe it's main purpose is to drive kids away from the sport and thin the herd.

[Joe]

Nostradamus,

Your deductive powers demand my respect. But that is probably because, for example, I am unable to understand your conclusion/assumption that the kid lacked desire to enjoy her HS years. Knowing nothing about my kid except what I posted and you are able to come to a significant conclusion about the rest of her life? Impressive indeed.

You have the same view as many (most?) parents about the profound impact and predictive qualities of isolated decisions and actions that you consider "bad." In some types of these things I agree (e.g., molestation, etc.) However, I disagree with those who, for example, believe that if a child is allowed to quit something at any point in their childhood, that the child is destined to be a habitual quitter as an adult. Similarly, if a child is ever allowed to defy authority then they are destined for an adulthood scarred by defiance of authority.

The source of my disagreement? If your reasoning was universally valid, then the obvious, inevitable conclusion is that adult behavior would be consistent with every single negative decision/action in childhood. Continuously opposing, reinforced proper decisions/actions during childhood would be subservient to the isolated cases. I don't believe that is the case, but then I don't consider myself to be an expert on such matters. All of my pot smoking friends in HS that are now law abiding college graduates making 6 figures are obviously the exceptions.

You certainly should be proud of one thing. You could end up preventing an unsuspecting family from wasting tens of thousands of dollars. You see, one of the ringleaders of that group of future convicts will likely be attending Harvard soon. I will let her parents know what a waste of money that would be since their kid will not "do real well in real life."

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that I routinely go with the flow of traffic on the freeway and that is rarely the posted speed limit, which I largely ignore. My kids don't stand a chance as adults.

Eternally Grateful Squirrel

P.S. I blew off HS sports despite being invited to participate by the basketball and track coaches. I have yet to feel even the tiniest regret but then again I'm only 51 so it may occur in the future.

Oh really? Well just so you know...Nosti and I smoked a doobie or two just last week...and we both agree the TB dads need to unwad the panties and let their kids have some fun... playing with peers, earning some respect in their schools and building some memories for the future. If the coach is a dingbat, laugh it off and save the story for your so-called TB studs in your dugout.

I've been around long enough to watch these kids chasing a dream while discounting the rest of their lives...and then landing themselves in that ever-elusive JUCO in some nasty-ass West Texas town where mom and dad don't even show up to watch their games. All in the name of getting an education??? Ha!!! Had they (and their parents) paid any attention to the books when they were in HS, they would be in a decent university getting ready for a career that actually pays the rent.

...So please....save your 6 figure life stories for someone who gives a she-ott.

[slapperdad]

Well stated softball rules. Honestly, this was the first impression I got when I started coaching JV softball at Roncalli 5 years ago. All the girls and parents talked about was "travel ball." Granted, during these 5 years some very, very good softball players came through Roncalli, and playing travel ball helped them get better. This led me to investigate several things:

1) Why do these players and parents speak so highly of travel ball
2) Why do so many of these players play travel ball
3) What makes these players and parents think just because they play travel ball, they are that much better than everyone else
4) When did travel ball take precedent over HS ball

What I learned was parents will go to great measures to put their kids in positions to be successful. I also learned that what evolved over time was year round training for young kids to specialize in a sport, and that by specializing early, they would have an edge when it comes to playing at a superior level in HS or college. This has proven to be false for a much greater percentage of players who chose to specialize. And I find this fact really sad. Certainly some go on to become great HS players, and even go onto successful college careers. But, for the most part, the majority of the players never met the inflated (and unrealistic) expectations of their parents. Somebody had to be blamed for this, and apparently a lot of the blame was put onto HS coaches.

I may be way off base here, but I'm certainly willing to continue this healthy dialogue with many of you who've made these decisions for, or with your kids. Again, thanks for the nice gestures from many of you with regards to joining in on this site. I do care about the health of this game (and other HS sports), and simply want to learn more about ways to put our kids in the best positions possible to be successful.

Speaking for my DD's situation only:
1. I've seen a lot a high school Softball. You guys are most in the metro area, don't forget there's a whole state playing Softball out here. If you haven't seen it, you'll have to take my word for it, there's some bad high school Softball played. ***not any different than any other sport*** However, I would venture to guess you can find the same complaints, though possibly to a lesser extent on AAU boards, USAV boards, etc.

2. Again, in my DD's situation there are several reasons, first and foremost it's fun. She's a competitive person, she wants to be on a competitive team. And I would be lying if I didn't mention there are thoughts of college ball as well.

3. I don't know that my DD "is" that much better than anyone else. I know she's able to compete with high school kids in neighboring schools. I know she's been able to compete against some pretty decent competition this fall. I know thus far in 16U I haven't seen her looking for a hole to climb into rather than face anyone she's seen. At this point, that's about all I "know".

4. I don't know that I would say that travel ball takes precedent over high school ball. But lets look at it from my side. Say I'm paying for pitching lessons from private coach, he's tough to get into, I have to drive an hour to see him, my schedule is impossible to change, his schedule is full, and the high school coach decides he wants to have an open gym at the same time. Where am I getting more bang for my buck? What would you do? Go to the lesson or attend the open gym that will likely have 6 or 7 kids show up?

I agree 100% with you on your specialization observations. I have long advocated that kids get different skills from different sports. Skills sets learned in one sport often times carry over to other sports. Look at college rosters, they are chocked full of multi-sport athletes. I saw a study one time several years back that I believe was conducted by Missouri University. It showed that (and I'm paraphrasing from my less than good memory) single sport athlete dominate in younger age groups. By 8th-9th grade, multi-sport athletes have begun to catch up. By the time the are seniors in high school, multi-sport athletes have surpassed their specialized teammates.

It will be interesting to see what the high school athletic landscape looks like in 5 or 10 years. With the current economic landscape, pay for play is becoming the new buzzword. Does this spell the end of high school sports as we know them? Football is the real wild card in the deal as there is really no travel/club type activities. Another thing to keep in mind, there are perhaps two kids on my DD's high school team who play TB, maybe another 3-4 who play on rec league all-star teams. Dropping high school ball would have a big impact with my DD's team, for most of them, high school IS Softball.

[Mavrick67]

Well it has been a few days since I posted for the first time on this site, and I must say I'm impressed! There have been so many post that I have been able to sit back and learn from many of you who are in, or have been in similar situations as the one I currently find myself in.

I really didn't expect this topic to blow up like this, but I'm sure happy it did. I feel like I have a much better understanding of what my DD is getting herself into at her HS. I do feel like I have heard both sides, and although a few seem to think that all we do is bash HS coaches on this site, I don't see that at all. I think just as many post have defended the HS system as bashed it.

I really appreciate all of the comments even if you weren't necessarily commenting on my post.

Good luck to the Roncali coach that put himself out there, (Well I guess he was outed) but thanks none the less.

I look forward to future post on this subject.

[Mavrick67]

DLauke,

A response to your "what do parents think is so great about TB".

I think one obvious thing is that they can pick the team/coach that they like, or think would be best for their DD. If that one doesn't work out to there liking they just go somewhere else!
That sure beats being stuck with what the School decides "will do!" I'm not saying they are all bad, but some are!

I personally like TB because my kids love it! Most of their close friends are from their TB teams that they spend all year with. I have two girls in travel and we spend most of our free time on softball, but we spend this softball time as a family. I don't know if either of my girls will play College ball or not, but I doubt there are very many families out there that can say they spend as much time with their kids as my wife and I do. That to me is worth every penny I spend on this sport. I can think of several girls the same age as my DD's who are doing some thinks that I don't care to speak of, so weather or not my DD's play at a High level for their School, or in College is not my #1 concern! Just one perspective!

[DLauck]

slapperdad & mavrick,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to some of my questions. Over the course of the last 5 years, I've been able to figure out general answers to most of those questions. Again, thanks for your responses.

My point from all of this wasn't to bash TB parents and players. In fact, many parents were willing to share their experiences with me and help me deal with the situation at Roncalli. It is just as apparent that there are several people, mostly dads, on this site who have made some very good decisions re: TB, and their dd's are reaping the benefits.

I failed to mention earlier what else I feel has evolved over the last 5-10 years and that's entitlement. In relation to softball, many players and parents felt that because they played (and paid) for travel ball, hitting coaches, pitching coaches, etc, that they were entitled to roster spots and playing time on the HS team. You can't imagine how many conversations I had with parents and the first thing out of there mouth was the travel team their dd plays on, and the position they play on that team. Then I hit them a ground ball or put them at another position and they look like they've never played the game. These are the marginal players I speak of who make up the majority of TB rosters. Many of these players and parents chose to specialize in softball and just didn't work out. I can't say all of them have regrets for these decisions, but my guess is most do.

To clear things up, I feel by the time a kid is in 10th grade it's appropriate (not necessary) to narrow down their HS athletic options. Obviously, there's the minority exception who were able to realize at an early age their "ticket" is softball. For example, bucket boy's dd. I'm just really perplexed by the number of parents out there who fail to see the writing on the wall and relegate to blaming others for the decisions they made for/with their dd's at an early age.

Lastly, I have no bones against bucket boy for calling me out on this site. I know him, respect his stance on TB, and cracked up with his signature "is it June yet" comment. The pros and cons of both TB and HS ball are being lobbied back and forth on here, and I'm learning from them, which makes my time on here justified. Have a good weekend gentleman and GO COLTS!

[bucketboy]

I appreciate the comments and to be honest found pretty early on on this board it' s better for everyone to know who you are than to hide behind a screen name. Unlike the president of my fanclub errr. haters club who hasn't joined us in awhile on here. Didn't mean to call you out Coach Lauck, but it obviously was pretty easy to figure out by your screen name who you were.

I will share one of the big reasons my dd went to one sport so young was because during her first year of basketball her coach told her she sucked at it. No lie. He was a travel guy coaching a league team and then his dd played travel BB on the weekends. She played golf real early and enjoyed it and was pretty good at it then I made the mistake of asking her if she wanted to play softball at 6 years old. Well the rest is kind of history and now she is a senior in high school and I want to enjoy her last season of softball both HS and Travel before she goes off to college.

As mentioned last year was miserable with a coach who was set up to fail in my humble opinion and now that there is a grizzled veteran back at the helm. I know that the issues that made it not fun a year ago will be non issues this season so the Is It June Yet will be retired for now although the shirts may be a collectors items some day or maybe used to dry the car...... At this point it is real to me that there are very few games left before she is gone to college and I want to enjoy every one of them.

I loved your comments about the travel ball players that can't field a ground ball and we have discussed that before of how travel ball is being watered down. I know Gunshy can attest that in a 10u State Tournament when our kids where young there were like 3 or 4 teams competing now there are 20 plus so I do agree just because the parents fork out the cash to play travel doesn't mean they are better, but that is another topic for another thread to rehash again later.

[coolstuff]

I may be way off base here, but I'm certainly willing to continue this healthy dialogue with many of you who've made these decisions for, or with your kids.

I'm pretty confident to say that we - DD's mother and I - have provided DD with many opportunties to try different sports and find her niche. She never committed early. One good example is gymnastics. DD was a pretty good gymnast and progressing well, but got to the point where it was going to be a major time commitment and one of those all or nothing decisions. After talking it through with her, she dropped gymnastics. There has always been softball at some level since kindergarten, and she has participated in basketball leagues since she has been old enough to do so. When she was in MS, we encouraged her to try every sport, which she did, receiving one the highest athletic/academics/attitude awards given to 8th graders following the track and field season. Then we had a discussion about what HS sports she should try out for. Softball was a definite. That conflicted with track so that was out. She liked the HS VB coach who showed interest in DD when she attended the coach's MS camps. Because of DD's honors academic courses she planned to take, we as parents strongly urged her not to play three sports, so basketball was the victim of that decision.

Not any of these decisions to choose a sport were easy. Coaches seem to like having DD on their team, no matter what the sport. DD is always among the better overall athletes on the teams she's been on, and she always learns and progresses throughout a season. So it was hard to decide, yet the choices always seemed clear at the time. I'm glad that DD has experienced every possible sport (except soccer - I still scratch my head over how she missed that one). And I would encourage any parent to let their child do the same precisely because it helps develop overall athleticism, and as has been said already, helps prevent burnout.

[snoop]

(except soccer - I still scratch my head over how she missed that one).

She missed soccer???!!!!??? That's the best sport out there!! Just ask me!!! Right Bucket?