my dislike for travel ball compared to high school ball

[Skarp]

Fair enough. The other side of that coin is this: Dont play for a coach that you dont respect enough to allow him to coach you. There are plenty of Prima Dona TB players that show up to HS as uncoachable cancers. Most are good, but not all. I dont care who your batting coach is, if you hit .167 and you dont want to be coached because mom and dad write a fat check, you can find another sport.

A few thoughts:

First, uncoachable cancers should be cut, imo...regardless of talent level.

Second, there's a difference between teaching mechanics and coaching the game. Obviously the latter must be coached, and learned, so that all of the players understand the coach's system and expectations. Anyone not fully on board with that should suffer the consequences.

Third, regarding mechanics, if the kid sucks, then by all means coach her. And if she isn't receptive, bench her. Or bench her anyway. I've got no issue with any of that. I'm talking about the propensity of some coaches to target strong, productive players for instruction on hitting/fielding fundamentals. It's unnecessary...and unappreciated, because it often works at cross-purposes with other instruction in which good time and money is already being invested. And it doesn't make a lot of sense from the team's perspective when there are other kids who really do need the extra attention. It's as if the coaches' perceptions of self-value are found reflected in the performance of these strong players whom they have "coached," when in truth there's a lot more value to be added at the lower echelons.

Fourth, as far as not playing for any coach you don't respect enough to allow to reconstruct your swing, that may be the silliest thing you've ever written here. This is high school ball. Travel players participate for a number of perfectly legitimate reasons, none of which typically include instructional value (with a few notable exceptions, coach-wise). It's absurd to suggest that they should forego participation simply because their high school has a weak, egomaniacal coach. I'm not suggesting that it's okay for them to be disrespectful, or to act like they think they are special somehow, but by that age they need to be able to recognize when advice is inferior and/or out of accordance with what their other coaches are teaching them. (Those would be the coaches who will be helping them get college scholarships, by the by...)

Fifth, umm...nevermind...I guess I only had four.

[Ace]

Fair enough. The other side of that coin is this: Dont play for a coach that you dont respect enough to allow him to coach you. There are plenty of Prima Dona TB players that show up to HS as uncoachable cancers. Most are good, but not all. I dont care who your batting coach is, if you hit .167 and you dont want to be coached because mom and dad write a fat check, you can find another sport.

A few thoughts:

Fourth, as far as not playing for any coach you don't respect enough to allow to reconstruct your swing, that may be the silliest thing you've ever written here. .

I respectfully disagree.

[Laces_Out]

A few years ago I decided to take the following stance: There is more than one way to do something productive. By this I mean: Hitting coach A believes and teaches X way to hit. Hitting coach B teaches Y way to hit. Both have produced big hitters. Is one of them wrong? If the player believes in and practices a certain style of hitting, she will be a good hitter. Belief and practice are key. The H.S. coach that tries to make a change to a good hitter that believes and practices something else is fighting a loosing battle. Heck, maybe the H.S. coach believes and teaches Z and has produced good hitters as well, but that is not my point. At that age the player has already bought into another style. I agree with whoever it was that said that the time is better spent on the weaker players.

As for not playing high school ball because of a respect issue with the coach: Not a chance. They play for the love of the game. It is too easy for the superior player to smile and nod.

[softball_rules5]

Wow, I thought this topic was dead but I guess I was wrong. The one problem I see with recent posts is the "paying good money for instruction" and "99% aren't listening". This really proves why I think there is such a gap between HS and TB and ALSO one of the HUGE problems with TB teams in general. ANY parent that would condone let alone encourage their DD to IGNORE what a coach tells them, I have no respect for what so ever. I am not saying if the coach says jump off the mountain, the player should say where is it. However, blatant disrespect (and you can spin the not listening any way you want, but it's disrespect regardless) should not and can not be tolerated. I have not only seen this between HS and TB, but also in TB alone. It sickens me these parents that either think their DD's hitting coach is a god and is untouchable or have been to two or three lessons with DD and suddenly they are experts.

Once again, I will say this...Respect each other, understand each others position, realize the greater wedge there is between the two there is a greater chance for a player to not be as successful as they can be, and also realize the more bickering there is the less respect people outside softball are going to have for this beautiful sport.

[slapperdad]

I think Brad Lewis said it best, do what you have to do to make the coaches (HS) happy, and we'll fix it in June.

[Laces_Out]

I'm a long time reader and this is the first thread I've contributed to because I too live on both sides of this coin. The variables in this debate are too numerous to list. My stance on this is middle of the road because I'm trying to stay away from the extremes. TB and HS are not created equal and the goals are different. I do not believe this is clear cut. I do not lump every high school coach as an idiot. I do not believe every TB coach is a genius nor is every hitting coach the second coming. I say all of this is very situational. I agree wholeheartedly that the gap in understanding and acknowlegement of the role of TB and HS to the player and parents, is too big. What I am saying is this: if the player is hitting (producing/executing) via the instruction of another coach and style, the high school coach should leave it alone. That is a win/win.

[softball_rules5]

I think Brad Lewis said it best, do what you have to do to make the coaches (HS) happy, and we'll fix it in June.

While this is completely acceptable and as I said before, most HS coaches would agree that they don't have time to fix a flaw during season, the way that statement comes off is the level of arrogance that comes from the TB coaches that is ever grating.

I agree whole heartedly with laces out. Too many coaches want to say its my way or the highway. I personally prefer if it aint broke dont fix it. Isn't the objective to win games and make players better? If both are happening (winning games and players are playign at a high level and trying to improve) why would a coach (TB or HS) feel the need to exude their authority. Possibly because of the great divide between the two parties.

[Skarp]

ANY parent that would condone let alone encourage their DD to IGNORE what a coach tells them, I have no respect for what so ever.

I feel the loss ever so acutely.

As I've said before, discrimination--the ability to differentiate between the superior and the inferior, and to reject the latter--is among the highest of human functions. So while I would never allow dd to blatantly disrespect anyone, or to obviously ignore any coach that she has, I would fully expect her to be able to determine when advice runs contrary to the entire body of instruction that she has received, and that she has built her game upon for years. I would expect her to listen intently to everything that is said, to actively engage the information for anything useful or informative, and to reject everything else.

By the way, this isn't something that parents need to say. By high school many of these kids have been receiving strong coaching and private instruction for many years. They know a hell of a lot more about the game than their parents do, and they know when something that their high school coach tells them is wrong, unhelpful, or inconsistent with what they learn from their more important coaches.

Yes, you read that right: their more important coaches. The ones who coach them year-round. The ones who market them to colleges. The ones who dedicate themselves passionately to the sport, and not merely dabble in it for extra income after quittin' time at the hardware store.

All coaches deserve respect, as well as each player's very best efforts. But if you're a high school coach who believes that travel players should elevate your advice above that of their private coaches, it isn't the players who have ego problems. It's you.

[slapperdad]

Isn't the objective to win games and make players better?

You've obviously never seen what we do here!

[softball_rules5]

ANY parent that would condone let alone encourage their DD to IGNORE what a coach tells them, I have no respect for what so ever.

I feel the loss ever so acutely.

As I've said before, discrimination--the ability to differentiate between the superior and the inferior, and to reject the latter--is among the highest of human functions. So while I would never allow dd to blatantly disrespect anyone, or to obviously ignore any coach that she has, I would fully expect her to be able to determine when advice runs contrary to the entire body of instruction that she has received, and that she has built her game upon for years. I would expect her to listen intently to everything that is said, to actively engage the information for anything useful or informative, and to reject everything else.

By the way, this isn't something that parents need to say. By high school many of these kids have been receiving strong coaching and private instruction for many years. They know a hell of a lot more about the game than their parents do, and they know when something that their high school coach tells them is wrong, unhelpful, or inconsistent with what they learn from their more important coaches.

Yes, you read that right: their more important coaches. The ones who coach them year-round. The ones who market them to colleges. The ones who dedicate themselves passionately to the sport, and not merely dabble in it for extra income after quittin' time at the hardware store.

All coaches deserve respect, as well as each player's very best efforts. But if you're a high school coach who believes that travel players should elevate your advice above that of their private coaches, it isn't the players who have ego problems. It's you.

Yes because every TB coach has years of experience and every HS coach just left the Home Depot to be at practice on time. You sound to be the exact parent that drives the wedge between the HS program and DD's TB team. You strike me as the one living your dreams vicariously through their child and surely she will be division I (she may very well be and this is no insult to her but follow my point). Not every travel coach is a god and not every HS coach is a total idiot. If you so love the TB experience take DD and have her play that year round. When things don't work out for the TB coach fine another. When she goes off to college and has no sense of team pride, has never sang the school fight song, and really was only in it for the "let's get recruited" experience explain that to the college coach. Maybe you can find another one of those too.

I guess you missed the part of my response that said if it aint broke don't fix it. I would expect any player to at least try something I ask, either in a TB setting or HS setting. I also would respect any player that said it isn't working for me, to which I would ask why? I would have no problem with a player that could explain it and her way would work. It just gets me that TB coaches continue to have the egos the size of TX because "WE" got her recruited and the HS coach is just something to fill the time until "WE" can work with her again.