What do you consider a 16u "A" level player..?

[gunshy]

There is no criteria that prevents a team from playing A, in ASA as far as I am aware. This opens up the division to anyone who wants to pay the fees and sign up. There were several teams last year that played multiple ASA qualifiers and were beaten like a drum every weekend. I am not sure what their motivation was, but the poundings didn't appear to help those teams and surely didn't help the winning teams. I truely don't have an answer to the overpopulation issue at 16A, but it does exist and it is making Indiana less competitive on the National stage. We are becoming a lot like the Chicago Metro area, if you are familiar with teams from that region. There is a wealth of talent in Chicago, but players are constantly recruited to and from the multitude of teams that come and go every year. This leaves a large number of teams that are just OK because of talent dilution, instead of having a couple programs or teams that are very dominant. Their teams are largely unrecognizeable, year to year, because so many players annually change uniforms. This past fall saw a strange phenomenon in Indiana when tryouts rolled around in the 16u group. There were no less than 20 different teams advertising for 16u players on eteamz EVERY DAY, stating that they were going to ASA Nationals and going to play the college exposure tournaments. I found this shocking, since only 5 teams went to ASA Nationals in 2008 and just 2 of them return to 16u for 2009. I am not a math expert, but it sure seemed to me that there were a bunch of folks promising things that they could not possibly deliver, just to try to get their 4-5 A quality players. These teams advertising obviously had no clue how hard it is to get qualified for ASA, as it is almost impossible to hit all the major exposure events AND get qualified for Nationals. As mentioned by another poster, I don't believe that coaches lost the ability to evaluate in their tryouts. The number of players at tryouts was good, but the number of true A quality players was very thin. It will be a very interesting year at 16u, as I believe even the best teams are not deep enough. One key injury, one overzealous high school coach who throws someone's #1 pitcher every inning of every game, one rotten boyfriend.....any of these could make the 16u landscape look very different. All because of talent dilution.

[bucketboy]

Ditto Gunshy. Well said and dead on.

Maybe we should have kept copies of all those ads promising ASA nationals and exposure for all those teams that put them on their tryout announcements.

What is an A player. Well someone mentioned one of my formers as a "filler" and yes when she came to my team with no real travel experience I only asked Mom and Dad to pay for uniforms and promised no playing time. Something funny happened she worked her tail off and has for the past 3 years and is now going on unofficial visits to colleges and will go to the next level because she did the work. Another that plays on DD's team came to us in 16u last year with no experience in travel. There was a very nice article about her in the Johnson County paper last week. She is one of the most athletic kids I have seen in a long time and again has worked her tail off to get better and is wowing the college coaches. The looks are priceless when these college coaches find out she has only been playing A ball for a year.

These two are far from the norm, but it does prove that a kid can get to a top level late in the game if they are willing to do the extra work.

Here's to hoping that the boy's stay away. The high school coach doesn't allow DD to throw 25 games and that June arrives soon so all this will play out.

Thanks for the chuckle gunshy it was a great way to start the day.

[looking in]

Gunshy,
Another good one!! All those teams are back stepping now!! Another sign of the watering down of 16U and 18U is the Exposure tournaments! They are now limiting the # of teams! The Hawks is cutting the field in half! Someone mentioned earlier to look at the success of the exposure tournaments as proof of the talent. The Hawks let anybody in last fall and it was a joke if you didn't play at the main complex! Ball State had nothing, but a few talented teams! Way to early for most to get it together! Don't know about St Louis, didn't go last year! Nationals, we will send 3 maybe 4 teams that will compete and 2 maybe 3 that will go 0-4 and come home!! (ASA!) There are only 4 or 5 teams that have a clue of what ASA nationals are like!! Kinda like going from allstar ball to travel as far as ASA and then rest! NSA,USSSA, and the rest!

[coolstuff]

There is no criteria that prevents a team from playing A, in ASA as far as I am aware. This opens up the division to anyone who wants to pay the fees and sign up. There were several teams last year that played multiple ASA qualifiers and were beaten like a drum every weekend. I am not sure what their motivation was, but the poundings didn't appear to help those teams and surely didn't help the winning teams. I truely don't have an answer to the overpopulation issue at 16A, but it does exist and it is making Indiana less competitive on the National stage.

I would suggest that the reason for a team to declare they are an A team is for the purpose of attracting talented players. That doesn't mean you will, but that's what we all want, right? If all you have to do is pay the fee and sign up, why would you NOT say you're an A team? Until you have to EARN the right to say you're an "A" team, the designation is meaningless and diluted.

[Scooby26]

Looking In-- is absolutely correct in stating that only 4 or 5 teams have any idea what the ASA Nationals is all about. I guess the question I would have is, are more of the 16U "A" girls benefitting by having the talent spread around and seeing more pretty good teams at the State level? or would the majority be better off if the top talent would be consolidated to a few great teams leaving less pretty good teams? That would definitely help Indiana's finishes during the week of the Nationals but other than that, I don't know.

I think the lack of emphasis on/by ASA at the younger age levels also contributes to the--not knowing what it takes to compete with other states at the National level. While there is no disputing ASA's dominance at 16U and 18U versus any other organization, along with the no brainer exposure edge, most Indiana parents and players aren't being conditioned with the "ASA is King" mentality that most other states have coming up through the ranks. I'll use the example of the 14U "A" State Tournaments last year as an example. The NSA "A" State had around 28 teams participating, it was a who's who of 14U softball in Indiana . The next weekend was the 14U "A" ASA State, hosted within 12 miles of the same venue as the prior week. If memory serves me correctly only 8 teams entered. No Dreams "94", CG Wizards, Explosion, Ft. Wayne Fire, all top 5 finisher's from the prior week.

I would love for my daughter's to experience what the ASA Nationals is all about, even if we would go-- 0-4 but it is a tough sell to our parents that saw the disparity of the tournaments at the state level. I'm pushing for a week in Chattanooga, followed by a short drive to Marietta, GA (should we qualify) but with the financial and time commitments that would involve---I'm fighting a losing battle. Next year we'll be amongst those chasing the ASA bids, it will be a different world at 16U.

[da60]

I don't have a horse in this race since we are an 18U team(although you could make similar observations for this age group), but I like the discussion so I will keep posting...if the problem has been identified at 16u(talent diluation, i.e too many teams)...and the want is to become more competitive at the national level...what is keeping players away from forming these teams come August/Sept....the tryouts exist for the "name" teams...my hunch is some parents not wanting to play for certain coaches, or a potential lack of playing time should you start rostering a team of say 13 or more players...the 4 players sitting on the bench get upset(really the parents of the 4 players become livid)...those parents get together with a couple other parents of non starters and well, you now have the makings of a new team...this reminds me a little of the discussion on the national side involving California ASA limiting the number of Gold teams...and I am not advocating limiting the number of ASA "A" teams but I like the thoughts from everyone regarding improving Indiana fastpitch softball.

[BigDaddy77]

Just to throw a wrench in the mix here . . .I know last year, our team registered "B" for NSA and USSSA, but ASA required us to register "A". So the organization itself is contributing to the problem as well.

[coolstuff]

This may just be a crazy thought, but it popped into my head. What if the system worked like this:

All teams who seek an official ASA designation of A or B must participate in one or more pre-qualifying tournaments in the fall. Plenty of tournaments are available in the fall, and ASA should make it simple to be designated as a pre-qualifying tournament. Teams earn points based on how they perform, and ASA assigns team's classification accordingly. I don't know how points are determined or what forumula would be used or how it's weighted, I'm just going off the top of my head here. I just think there has to be some way that you have to earn an "A" designation or it means nothing.

[gunshy]

Scooby, you are now opening a whole new can of worms in the ASA/any other sanction question. Having coached up from 10u to 16u, you are absolutely correct in that the emphasis on ASA does not occur in Indiana until at least 14u, maybe later. ASA does not help itself by it's choice of posh National locations, which are a harder sell at 10u/12u when parents and players are not yet sure what they have or what they want. Looking backwards, it would have been an impossible sell to my 10u parents to go to a National destination 3 time zones away versus going NSA at Columbus, Ohio. Last year 12u was in California and 14u was in the heart of Texas in late July!!! The NSA rules are more user friendly for coaches and players AND it is easier to qualify and thus plan your summer. National locations are East of the Mississippi and again, user friendly. As the kids get older and the players sort themselves out by sport, the importance of getting in front of college coaches grows immensely. College coaches, for whatever reason, almost exclusively flock to the big ASA events and ASA Nationals; especially at 16u. There were more top name college coaches watching games at 16u in Owensboro last year than I could count. We had 15-20 D-1 coaches watch parts of every game we played, which was amazing and is EXACTLY why everyone wants to be there. Credibility is instantly added to a player's bio sheet by including a list of ASA Nationals attended. That is the "why" for ASA, but the trick is that ASA has a finite number of bids to Nationals each year and it is my opinion that states that routinely send stinker teams to Nationals (going 0-4 and going home) will get fewer and fewer bids. More mediocre teams is not the answer and is not better, which is exactly why ASA limits the number of teams each year.

Da60 makes a great point of exactly what happens to cause the development of the large number of teams at 16u. It takes at least 12 kids to play ASA on the National level and the west coast teams routinely bring 18-20 to Nationals. NO matter who you roster on your team, there is going to be a starting/best 9 and then reserve players; look at the Olympic team. It is extremely diffucult to keep players 10-12 happy playing competitive ASA and they do just as Da60 suggests, get a dad to form their own team with 4-5 A players and 6-7 that don't make the forementioned list. Here we are, back to square 1 with very good teams that lack depth and a whole bunch of mediocre teams to play them. When we are able to solve these problems, Indiana will be able to make runs at Nationals, like the Xtreme made last year, an annual event.

[Stubs]

Let me ask a different question. My DD is 12U. Does it do any good (as far as recognition by college coaches) to play and win ASA Nationals at the lower levels (like Indiana Thunder 10U A champs two years ago and 12U ASA Northern Nationals last year)? I know the experience is great for a kid on a team like that but does it get them any "brownie points" come recruitment time?