Updates from NSA Convention

[Blind Squirrel]

... Know who feld is never personal meet him.

Definition of unintelligible –adjective not intelligible; not capable of being understood.

Synonyms:
incomprehensible, baffling, undecipherable.

[slapperdad]

One thing I don't like about rules that protect the catcher is the unintended consequence that coaches then start fielding a weaker athlete at catcher because they don't count on that positions for outs anymore. They will tend to put the best athlete ( after the pitcher ) at SS or 1B so that they will be involved in more outs and the catcher becomes anyone willing to put on the gear. This doesn't bode well for the transition to 12U when the catcher becomes the most important person on the field (other than the pitcher). Over and over again I have seen kids come up from Rec ball and transition to travel and the kid that thinks they are the catcher isn't in the top 50% in athletic ability and the kids who are tops are already locked into a "I'm not a catcher" mentality. Fortunately you can turn that around fairly quickly, but if you don't recognize it and allow it to continue your setting up a kid for failure and your doing a disservice to the pitchers your working with that spend so much time on self improvement that the least they deserve is for a coach to recognize that the catcher needs to be one of the best athletes.

I understand what you're saying to a point. All I'm saying is at 10U, catching skills aren't good enough to have a DK3. Now that doesn't mean "mine, yours, his" DD's catching skills weren't good enough, I'm saying what I've seen as a whole aren't there yet. If the pitcher gets the K, give her the out.

Perhaps my experience has been an anomaly, but of the teams my DD has played with, our catchers have been our two best athletes.

[SnocatzDad]

I understand what you're saying to a point. All I'm saying is at 10U, catching skills aren't good enough to have a DK3. Now that doesn't mean "mine, yours, his" DD's catching skills weren't good enough, I'm saying what I've seen as a whole aren't there yet. If the pitcher gets the K, give her the out.

Perhaps my experience has been an anomaly, but of the teams my DD has played with, our catchers have been our two best athletes.

As it should be, and if that is the case they should #1 be able to catch third strike most of the time, #2 be able to throw the ball to 1B most of the time to get the runner out. As a dad of a catcher, I look at a D3K as a learning opportunity, I think too many parents of pitchers look at it as completely unacceptable/should be banned from sport at all ages. Why deny that 10 year old catcher the practice she needs so that 11 she can be better. If your using the argument that the 10U's percentages aren't good enough, who do you want catching for your pitchers at the start of her first 12U season a girl who's been working with D3K for two years, or one who just learned the rule last week and has yet to make a throw in that situation in a game?

If it's 10U Rec and the best athletes on the teams can't make that throw, that's a valid reason to not allow it. If they can make the play 50% of the time I'd keep it in.

[gunshy]

I believe there is another angle that few are considering, regarding dropped 3rd strike. Everyone is focused on the catcher and how it effects them, but my experience is that the real effect is on the pitchers. FOR THE MAJORITY, the pitchers at 10u are still in the early stages of development and struggle to throw anything other than a fastball for a strike. Change-ups ,more often than not, end up on the ground as do other pitches that are works in progress. Our team was very successful at 10u and had a very good pitcher/catcher combination, but there were several pitches or locations that we called that had a high probability of ending up on the ground at no fault of the catcher. Bear in mind that 10u often includes pitchers as young as 8 or 9 who are learning their trade as well as the catcher is learning her's. I believe this rule has less to do with the catcher's ability to throw it to 1st base than it has to do with the pitcher's ability to throw it to the glove and the coach's willingness to call something other than a fastball with 2 strikes on the batter. We played without the dropped 3rd strike at 10u and with it at 12u and the biggest immediate adjustment had nothing to do with the catcher, but more to do with the pitcher and the pitch calling. It was a huge roll of the dice to call a 2 strike change up.

[slapperdad]

I agree 100% Gunshy.

[coolstuff]

I believe there is another angle that few are considering, regarding dropped 3rd strike. Everyone is focused on the catcher and how it effects them, but my experience is that the real effect is on the pitchers. FOR THE MAJORITY, the pitchers at 10u are still in the early stages of development and struggle to throw anything other than a fastball for a strike. Change-ups ,more often than not, end up on the ground as do other pitches that are works in progress. Our team was very successful at 10u and had a very good pitcher/catcher combination, but there were several pitches or locations that we called that had a high probability of ending up on the ground at no fault of the catcher. Bear in mind that 10u often includes pitchers as young as 8 or 9 who are learning their trade as well as the catcher is learning her's. I believe this rule has less to do with the catcher's ability to throw it to 1st base than it has to do with the pitcher's ability to throw it to the glove and the coach's willingness to call something other than a fastball with 2 strikes on the batter. We played without the dropped 3rd strike at 10u and with it at 12u and the biggest immediate adjustment had nothing to do with the catcher, but more to do with the pitcher and the pitch calling. It was a huge roll of the dice to call a 2 strike change up.

In that case wouldn't it be scored as a WP and an error on the pitcher, rather than a D3K error on the catcher?

[SnocatzDad]

I believe there is another angle that few are considering, regarding dropped 3rd strike. Everyone is focused on the catcher and how it effects them, but my experience is that the real effect is on the pitchers.

I disagree with you. I personally see this from a catcher development issue but find that most people see it from the pitcher's point of view. As I stated before, pitcher's parents (many of whom coach) would gladly abolish the D3K rule at all ages as it clearly reflects unfavorably on the pitcher. You won't find that parents of a 16U pitcher are any happier about a catcher blowing a K than parents of a 10U. I've been through that painful walk walk walk, hit, walk stage of softball when it seems you cannot buy an out due to the inexperience of the pitcher. I understand the desire to let stand any out that you can get and that most would hate to see a K nullified by a D3K. Like I said if your at a rec level and no one on the team is ready for it, fine. If your playing travel there has to be one kid that can pick up a ball and throw it 60' to get the out in the case that the pitch is dropped or in the dirt.

[gunshy]

Sno,You are welcome to disagree, as every coin has 2 sides. I coach and my daughter is neither a pitcher or catcher for our travel team, so I saw that issue from unbiased eyes. I didn't care how it was scored in the book and I didn't split hairs deciding whether it was a poor pitch or a below average catching play. As a coach, I changed the pitch calling, as I am sure lots of 10u coaches do right now, to a less risky pitch when there were 2 strikes on the batter.
Changing the pitch call doesn't appreciably effect the catcher, but it darn sure effects the pitcher. Remember, we are talking about 8-10 year olds and casting for the MAJORITY, not the minority who throw 52 or stand 5-10 and built like the governator. We taught our catcher the D3K rule and it was a non-event from her perspective, but honestly ask yourself how many coaches are going to ask their 10 year old pitcher to throw a drop ball with 2 strikes on the batter (Remember, majority not minority). I question these new rules that tend to rush the youngest of our players, who need develpoment rather than the quest to win with the collegiate rule set; be it the pitcher or the catcher. Soon we will be throwing from 40 feet with a 12 in ball at 8u because someone, somewhere can.

[SnocatzDad]

Changing the pitch call doesn't appreciably effect the catcher, but it darn sure effects the pitcher. Remember, we are talking about 8-10 year olds and casting for the MAJORITY, not the minority who throw 52 or stand 5-10 and built like the governator. We taught our catcher the D3K rule and it was a non-event from her perspective, but honestly ask yourself how many coaches are going to ask their 10 year old pitcher to throw a drop ball with 2 strikes on the batter (Remember, majority not minority). I question these new rules that tend to rush the youngest of our players, who need develpoment rather than the quest to win with the collegiate rule set; be it the pitcher or the catcher. Soon we will be throwing from 40 feet with a 12 in ball at 8u because someone, somewhere can.

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of development OVER winning. If you're changing your pitch calls for fear of losing a game based on D3K then aren't you by default on a "quest to win without the college rule set?" I'd rather chance losing a game and train someone besides the pitcher how to make an out. I just get tired of seeing teams who have a monster SS and put a midget at catcher who can barely throw back to the pitcher and get away with it because they are hiding behind modified rule sets. It's a pet peeve of mine, I'll admit I'm not necessarily rational about it.

[gunshy]

Sno, I am sure that I was guilty of playing to win in that situation, as opposed to taking the stance of developing the pitcher/catcher even if we go home early. Guilty as charged. Putting a scrawny player who can't play anywhere else behind the plate takes care of itself in very short order, with or without D3K. As the kids move up in age group, weak catchers are exposed quickly and the good teams all have stud catchers.