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by AM Softball » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:04 pm

Skarp wrote:
AM Softball wrote:I have been on both sides of this, as a player and a coach, so I would like to comment. My travel coach (when I played Gold) never yelled. When he said "Good Grief" you know you were in hot water. I loved this man to death without the yelling. I personally could not play for a coach that yelled all the time but that is only one player's perspective; others love it for motivation.

When I went to college, I couldn't understand how anyone could play for Phil and despised the Raiders but the players I know that have played for him, LOVED him. They were team players, coached well, and aggressive, which is what every players needs to be at that level. There is NO argument that Phil knows the game at a whole different level and maybe he is totally different at practice and the players understand that.

Maybe he is yelling because he has high expectations and wants his kids to be their best. The parents never understand but his players did. The players know he's not a mean guy 100% of the time or he wouldn't get players. I have seen him coach and talk to his players. He teaches them before he yells.

Only the strong survive on that team but that's the way it is in life. I think analyzing WHEN the screaming is going on is the best point I can make. Is it after physical errors? Is it for performance? That is different than yelling at a kid because you have told her the same thing 10 times and she still is doing it wrong. Now, as a coach, I'm yelling at that point so I completely understand it.

How many parents yell at their kids after they have told them something over and over? How many times have you told your kid to go brush their teeth? Clean heir room? A LOT! So now, the parent raises their voice to let the child know, this is unacceptable. FOCUS! A coach is the same figure and needs to get on them when they aren't focused.

If someone would have seen me this weekend, I'd be on the anger management list again but my players know, I yell when mentally, they are not focused. Obviously, they need me to yell and wake them up. They deserve it and while some think coaches like this are insane, I think the people that think you can coach effectively without yelling are insane. Especially in this day and age.

Demeaning kids, cursing kids out, switching players if they make a physical error, etc. are all rude to me and I would not put up with that from any coach. I can understand that. But getting on kids for mental mistakes is a must and often times yelling gets the point across. I try not to single out players but I go off on the team first. Then, start pulling players one on one so they don't get embarrassed.

I don't know the person that we are talking about but I do know that people think the same of many great coaches I know, including myself. Perspective from the players is the ONLY thing that should matter. Motivating players, however you do it, is all that matters.

Pretty much agree with all of that, but I would say that a good coach should have multiple methods of motivation, and browbeating should be option of last resort.

And belittling some kid because she doesn't run fast enough for you?? That ain't gonna fly.


Yes, I age with both points. Like a teacher, a coach has to use all different types of methods because you have multiple learners. You should tell them, let them read it, show them, and have them do it for max learning...
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by rbi » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:05 pm

AM Softball wrote:
Skarp wrote:
AM Softball wrote:I have been on both sides of this, as a player and a coach, so I would like to comment. My travel coach (when I played Gold) never yelled. When he said "Good Grief" you know you were in hot water. I loved this man to death without the yelling. I personally could not play for a coach that yelled all the time but that is only one player's perspective; others love it for motivation.

When I went to college, I couldn't understand how anyone could play for Phil and despised the Raiders but the players I know that have played for him, LOVED him. They were team players, coached well, and aggressive, which is what every players needs to be at that level. There is NO argument that Phil knows the game at a whole different level and maybe he is totally different at practice and the players understand that.

Maybe he is yelling because he has high expectations and wants his kids to be their best. The parents never understand but his players did. The players know he's not a mean guy 100% of the time or he wouldn't get players. I have seen him coach and talk to his players. He teaches them before he yells.

Only the strong survive on that team but that's the way it is in life. I think analyzing WHEN the screaming is going on is the best point I can make. Is it after physical errors? Is it for performance? That is different than yelling at a kid because you have told her the same thing 10 times and she still is doing it wrong. Now, as a coach, I'm yelling at that point so I completely understand it.

How many parents yell at their kids after they have told them something over and over? How many times have you told your kid to go brush their teeth? Clean heir room? A LOT! So now, the parent raises their voice to let the child know, this is unacceptable. FOCUS! A coach is the same figure and needs to get on them when they aren't focused.

If someone would have seen me this weekend, I'd be on the anger management list again but my players know, I yell when mentally, they are not focused. Obviously, they need me to yell and wake them up. They deserve it and while some think coaches like this are insane, I think the people that think you can coach effectively without yelling are insane. Especially in this day and age.

Demeaning kids, cursing kids out, switching players if they make a physical error, etc. are all rude to me and I would not put up with that from any coach. I can understand that. But getting on kids for mental mistakes is a must and often times yelling gets the point across. I try not to single out players but I go off on the team first. Then, start pulling players one on one so they don't get embarrassed.

I don't know the person that we are talking about but I do know that people think the same of many great coaches I know, including myself. Perspective from the players is the ONLY thing that should matter. Motivating players, however you do it, is all that matters.

Pretty much agree with all of that, but I would say that a good coach should have multiple methods of motivation, and browbeating should be option of last resort.

And belittling some kid because she doesn't run fast enough for you?? That ain't gonna fly.


Yes, I age with both points. Like a teacher, a coach has to use all different types of methods because you have multiple learners. You should tell them, let them read it, show them, and have them do it for max learning...



I agree with a lot of what you say, and when you have been on both sides of the fence as a player and as a coach at a high level you start to understand how a player NEEDS to be treated throughout ALL the years of development. With that said, we must differentiate the younger kids from Gold and or College kids, you cannot treat both the same, and I think sometimes when coachs bounce around age groups they loose site. Younger and when I say younger under the age of 15, it is a time of development, it is a time where kids need positive instruction because they WILL make a lot of mistakes both physical and mental, it is the time where kids need to learn the game thru a firm motivational all around game savvy person.One that can keep kids enjoying the sport all at the same time developing. Believe it or not coachs play a big role in talented kids giving up the game at a early age.. So please separate the two, college/gold and the younger kids, at the same time we have different playing abilities. Nothing worse than seeing a below avg. kid trying her heart out in a rec-ball game to be chewed out by some wantabe coach who is wearing under armour freakin sweat bands, god that just makes me puke, so everything has its place in softball.. My father a long time (35 years) HS school coach (not softball) used to tell me, "son not all coachs are going to be the same, and you will think some are aholes but think of it as a learning experience", and DO NOT let them bring you down, or tell you that you CAN'T do it.
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by AM Softball » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:11 pm

rbi,

I totally agree! :) You are defnitely right! Unfortunately, kids are being recruited at a much younger age that I had to deal with. Thank goodness. It is a lot of pressure. Kids quit playing at all levels, even in college as we all have seen. It sucks to lose your love for anything.

12 under...they are turning 13 and I have taught 7th grade for 10 years It is a STRANGE age! LOL Sometimes, they need a little motivation....
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by softball_parent » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:05 am

My daughter played for a coach who demeaned them and did many of the things described here in 16U and 1st year 18U. Her last year 18U she played for a great coach. I want you to read a letter she wrote but never sent to the first coach who even now at 22 she still has such negative memories. This is a kid who got the big scholarship at a D1 college

Ok, so I'm transferring to University of next year. My shoulder is finally doing ok, and it's the big time. We face Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, etc. And now, I'm freakin out a little bit because I keep doubting myself and if I can do this or not. Something funny though, it all comes back to you. You never had any faith in me and everything I did was never good enough. As a kid, I had some fuckin brass balls. I started playing second base (after only ever playing outfield) because I felt like it. I started hitting from the left because I felt like it. I was a catcher, because I felt like it. And I did all those things well... I was good. And I didn't give it a second thought. I went to softball camp with the Long Beach State coach as a catcher and told him I could pitch too for our scrimmage, just because I felt like it. And I did pitch... pretty well I might add. I did shit because I felt like it and because I had the confidence and knew I could. I started playing for the Breakers and was hitting #1 or #3 in the line up because thats just what I did. I ALWAYS hit when I played. And usually in the leadoff spot too. When I started playing for the ______, I said I played shortstop, just because I felt like it. And I was damn good there too. Played first base, because I felt like it. I was good, and I had confidence in myself and you took that from me. I have never in my left had so much self doubt and it all comes from you. And I know that you're reading this and laughing because thats just how you are. But I don't care. I don't care what you think and just so you know, there wasn't a parent or a kid or anyone else related to the team that thought the way you treated me was ok. You made me want to quit and how dare you take softball away from me. And its not because I'm not a fighter, I have no balls, or whatever lame ass excuse you're thinking to yourself right now. It's because I looked up to you. Playing for _____'s team I always wanted to play for you. Pitching with ____, I always wanted to play for you. And now I wish I never did. I looked up to you and you took advantage of that when you lied to me and told me we were only going to carry 3 pitchers and a month later we had 8. You lied to me and told me I would play outfield so I worked my ass off and I never did play. I pitched the least out of all the pitchers even though you said I would pitch the most. I gave everything and someone who I THOUGHT I respected turned around every second of every day we were at a practice or games and told me I still wasn't good enough. But I want you to know, that I'll get past all this. Just another hard point in my life that I'll get over. Just like I overcame my shoulder issue and just like I overcame being on your stupid team. So when you see the college world series on TV, look for me in the green. Cuz University of will be there. We're a damn good teama nd we're going to make a name for our school and I'll be damned if I ever thank you for that. So you can keep on thinking that what you did was the "right thing". But just know that you're only fooling yourself... not anyone else.
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by Sftbll4ever » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:15 am

Holy cow softball_parent. I swear to GOD that is what my dd thinks about one of her coaches. She almost quit the sport she loves the most because of what a coach did to her. If it wasn't for her coach last year who sat and heard her words and saw the negative reactions to this previous coaches actions, she probably would be done.

My dd loves softball again because she has coaches who believe in her. She is injured, but fighting through it. Why, because she loves this game. No coach will ever take that from her again. She still thinks about it and sometimes cries, but she is stronger. She will never forgive what that coach did to her, but that is her decision.

No coach should ever make a CHILD feel like they are useless with the excuse that "This is the way it will be in College!!" When my kid is in college she will be 18, not 11.

Beautiful letter. I may actually let my dd read that!!!

Thank you to the coaches who did help her the last couple of years (AE, MM...the last one knows who he is)!!!
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by Skarp » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:53 am

You actually waded through that monolithic block of text? Makes me dizzy just looking at it.

Paragraphs people, paragraphs!
There is no charge for awesomeness
...or attractiveness.
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by Sftbll4ever » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:00 am

I read most of it, but it did hit home. The scars are still there.
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by bn2themountain » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:07 am

softball_parent,

That was incredible. Such a fantastic view of a Softball players' emotions, feelings, and desire. Thank you for sharing. Makes me realize to always listen to my DD's feelings about softball.
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by Shaskell » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:28 am

rbi & softball_parent ...

Excellent posts! I think we all (coaches and parents alike) can take a step back and re-adjust our priorities as mentors, facilitators and role models. If we're asking the players (and parents) to adjust, we can too! Points taken ...
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by Softballer15 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:03 pm

sbparent- that could have been written by my dd as well. The Coach has made her feel like sh&^ so many times then turns around and tells her she has to carry the team. She used to be a #4 batter (before hs), she no longer bats cause he says she sucks after he totally changed her batting technique. She is a pitcher and does well there, but she does not even want to bat anymore. She had to hit a few weeks ago due to a game time injury and she hit a triple and an HR-did a dance on both bases, funnier than crap, her coach couldn't watch. But, she still sucks! ask her coach UGH!

On a better note: She has been approached by several TB teams for the summer season and she really wants to go with another team, I am gonna let her. not gonna tell her coach though, he will pull her from the team. This is her year to see if she can go to college and this summer is important. Hope for the best.
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