Obstruction?

[TNSoftballDad]

I think I know the answer to this but I would love to get it straight from some experienced umpires' mouths.

In my DD's last game (12u rec ball, I know, ugh), the opposing team started to "box" in our runners after they left the base. For example, with a runner on first, F4 would move over and stand about one step beside R1 directly in the baseline.

If R1 proceeds to make contact with F4 in an attempt to advance, does that automatically constitute obstruction?

[wadeintothem]

If a fielder who does not have possession of the ball and who is not fielding a batted ball impedes the runner, that is obstruction.

I dont like to say too many things are automatic, and there are always "what ifs" - so I would just say your scenario is going to border on OBS and I would be quick to hold the fielder accountable if I saw any impeding of the runner by the fielder. Some coaches, seeing fielders who dont know how to take proper positions, teach runners ways to draw the OBS, watch for the arm indicating Delayed Dead Ball, then take their shot at the next base.

[TNSoftballDad]

Thanks, that is what I figured. Just another reason why I hate rec ball...kids getting taught stuff like this. Our coach caught onto what they were doing and started having our F6 do it too.

Sad thing is, if I tell my DD to make contact with F4 or F6 when she is on base, I'm less than 50 percent certain the umpires will know the rule.

[wadeintothem]

Well.. thats rec league.

A few weeks ago 1B coach of a VERY prominent 18 CA team (in fact many predicted a few months back they would be #1 in nor cal but I dont see it at all) taught his runners to draw the OBS.. would whine at BU incensently "get em off my bag" (talking to BU about F3 when not making a play), often would GET the OBS call.. but wouldnt send his runners for the free shot at 2B... just call em back to the bag and whine to BU.

I saw it several times both when I was BU and PU and I had this team several times over memorial day weekend as they were in the Pool on my fields.

It was an absurdity circus for such an "experienced" base coach. I almost asked him "WTF, stupid?" but I decided to let him rot in his own arrogance and never said a word. Many umpires got a kick out of his idiocy, and yes we did talk about it.

[fosterspoint]

What about F3 standinging between the runner and 1st base on a pick off attempt. We saw this last weekend, their F3 had obviously been taught to stand a couple feet off 1st base in the baseline to take a pick off throw from the catcher.

If the runner runs into F3 on the way back to 1st base, what is the call? Our coaches can't agree whether to tell the girls to go around F3, or go straight to the base and bump into her.

Thank you.

[wadeintothem]

The answer is the same as above - the fielder's positioning is not the issue -

The issue is whether the fielder without a ball impedes the runner.

[fosterspoint]

Would the runner get a pass to 2nd base if she bumped into F3 before F3 had the ball? Or, would the runner just be awarded 1st base if F3 obstructed her on the way back to 1st base.

At what point would the runner be awarded 2nd base?

I am just wondering what is the penalty for F3 obstructing the runner back to 1st base. Is it just that a successful pick off may be ruled obstruction, so the runner would not be out. But the benefit is that base runners who avoid contact, and attempt to go around F3, are more likely to get picked off.

Thank you.

[MTR]

Would the runner get a pass to 2nd base if she bumped into F3 before F3 had the ball? Or, would the runner just be awarded 1st base if F3 obstructed her on the way back to 1st base.

At what point would the runner be awarded 2nd base?

I am just wondering what is the penalty for F3 obstructing the runner back to 1st base. Is it just that a successful pick off may be ruled obstruction, so the runner would not be out. But the benefit is that base runners who avoid contact, and attempt to go around F3, are more likely to get picked off.

Thank you.

I don't think you are getting the point Wade is trying to offer.

There is no "automatic" anything when it comes to obstruction. There is also no "penalty" for the violation. The ONLY thing that the rule does is negate the affect of the obstruction.

The runner is awarded the base s/he would have reached safely had no obstruction occurred. And no "presumptive TWP scenarios". The call is based on what actually happened in the umpire's view and opinion. Subsequent play should not be a factor in the protection and award unless specifically covered by rule (interference, missed base, etc.).

[wadeintothem]

Would the runner get a pass to 2nd base if she bumped into F3 before F3 had the ball? Or, would the runner just be awarded 1st base if F3 obstructed her on the way back to 1st base.

At what point would the runner be awarded 2nd base?

I am just wondering what is the penalty for F3 obstructing the runner back to 1st base. Is it just that a successful pick off may be ruled obstruction, so the runner would not be out. But the benefit is that base runners who avoid contact, and attempt to go around F3, are more likely to get picked off.

Thank you.

The shorter answer is she is awarded the base she would have achieved had their been obstructed.

She cannot be put out under regular conditions (no int/appeal etc) between the two bases where obstructed.

Edit: I was typing at work and got distracted, I see MTR answered, I'm sure that his is correct as well but I will still offer my token response.

[fosterspoint]

Thanks for the responses. The rule makes sense.

I am just trying to figure out the logic behind the other team. F3 would not gain an advantage by blocking the runner from going back to 1st base, because it would be obstruction or interference unless she has the ball. If she has the ball in time, then the runner was probably too far off from the base, and F3 would have easily gotten the runner out, even if F3 was playing on the base.

Maybe they count on runners being too timid, so the runners hesitate a second longer. Maybe they count on Blue not making the obstruction or interference call.

Anyway, as a coach, I need to know what to teach the girls in this situation because we will likely play this team again. We will tell our girls to go straight back to the base on a pickoff attempt. If the defensive player is in the way, they still need to go straight to the base, even if it means making contact with the defense. I don't like teaching the girls to make contact with the defense, but in this case, the other team is forcing the issue. Does this sound right?