strange call

[morgan]

HS state champ game, 0-0 score, bottom 6. Runners on 2nd & 3rd, 1 out. B hits medium depth fly ball to F7, catch is made, R3 tags and scores. Throw to plate gets away from F2, but not too far. R2 has also tagged and seeing ball away from F2, aggressively rounds 3rd, where she gets tangled up with F5, BU signals obstruction. F2 retrieves ball and returns it to F1 near the plate. Base coach, apparently influenced by obstruction call, sends R2 home, where she is easily tagged out by F1. Discussion occurs, and runner is called safe at home. More discussion between two managers and three umps (nearly 5 minutes), and finally runner is put back on 3rd. ????? Was that the correct call? It seemed more like a 'compromise'. Wound up not mattering, but it sure could have.

[Whizzer86]

I would think she is either out or safe? Not a "do over". If obstruction is called I think the runner has to have continuous motion to the next base, she can't stop or make a movement back to the bag. But I could be wrong............

[SnocatzDad]

In this situation, Once the umpires arm went out the runner cannot be put out between third and home so the coach was correct to send her, If she scores without being tagged, the run scores. If she's tagged one of two things happens

#1 Umpire decides that without the obstruction the runner would have made it home without being tagged out. In that case she is safe at home and run scores

#2 Umpire decides that even without the obstruction the runner would not have made it home safe. In that case the runner is put back on third.

So it sounds like someone convinced the umpire after the fact that the runner would have been out without obstruction anyway (possibly the other ump, probably the defensive coach:))

Both calls are right depending on the judgement of the umpire.

[wadeintothem]

SnocatzD nails it.

[Whizzer86]

In this situation, Once the umpires arm went out the runner cannot be put out between third and home so the coach was correct to send her, If she scores without being tagged, the run scores. If she's tagged one of two things happens

#1 Umpire decides that without the obstruction the runner would have made it home without being tagged out. In that case she is safe at home and run scores

#2 Umpire decides that even without the obstruction the runner would not have made it home safe. In that case the runner is put back on third.

So it sounds like someone convinced the umpire after the fact that the runner would have been out without obstruction anyway (possibly the other ump, probably the defensive coach:))

Both calls are right depending on the judgement of the umpire.

I guess I'm going on bad calls, we have had runners declared out because they hesitated and made a move back to the bag, then headed to the next base and were tagged out. The umpire stated on more than one ocassion that the runner made a move back to the bag so she was advancing at her own risk. Wouldn't be the first time I've been burned not knowing a relatively obscure rule. It happens a lot at the younger ages but not so much as the players get older.

[wadeintothem]

Am I to understand you've had several LBR violations called on an obstructed runner? Thats pretty rare so I find that unusual.

In any case:

If there is a LBR violation on a runner between the bases where obstructed it would simply be a dead ball and then the award would be governed as Snocatz posted. There are only a very few limited instances where a runner can be called out between the bases where obstructed. LBR is not one of them.

[morgan]

So it looks like the correct call under scenario #2, as the consensus was that even without the OBS, sending R2 home would have been a suicide mission. LBR did not apply, as F1 was close to home, starting back to circle. In fact, while it was happening, it had the appearance of the old playground 'sneak home while the pitcher isn't looking' play, typically doesn't work at this level. But then the coach (hopefully) knew R2 couldn't be called out, so he was testing the water to see what he could get out of the play, and it almost worked. All makes sense now, good coaching, good umping.

Great game from beginning to end, ended up 1-0, that sac fly scoring the only run, and the game ending on a perfect throw from F9 to nail a runner at 3rd on a bang-bang play.

[ajaywill]

HS state champ game, 0-0 score, bottom 6. Runners on 2nd & 3rd, 1 out. B hits medium depth fly ball to F7, catch is made, R3 tags and scores. Throw to plate gets away from F2, but not too far. R2 has also tagged and seeing ball away from F2, aggressively rounds 3rd, where she gets tangled up with F5, BU signals obstruction. F2 retrieves ball and returns it to F1 near the plate. Base coach, apparently influenced by obstruction call, sends R2 home, where she is easily tagged out by F1. Discussion occurs, and runner is called safe at home. More discussion between two managers and three umps (nearly 5 minutes), and finally runner is put back on 3rd. ????? Was that the correct call? It seemed more like a 'compromise'. Wound up not mattering, but it sure could have.

The rule on Obstruction and its effects has been aptly quoted above, however, in re-reading the scenario, something looks strange and I have questions.

It is stated that the BU signaled the delayed dead ball for OBS after the runner has rounded third. The runner breaks for home and you say she is easily tagged out, but (I assume) the PU calles her safe. Did the PU signal safe immediately or did s/he do something different than a normal safe/out call?

If the runner was safe, the obstruction is basically negated bcause there are no other bases to award her. If the runner was called out, the BU should have immediately called a dead ball because the runner was put out between the bases she was obstructed (third and home) and placed the runner based on his/her judgement of where she would have been absent the obstruction.

I don't see any need for a five minute conversation over this call if it was handled correctly. All of the elements are judgement calls. Now it may be necessary to explain the call to one or both coaches, but that shouldn't take five minutes.

I can think of only two possibilities:

1. PU reversed his safe call to an out, BU judgement was that runner would not have made it to home, so she was placed back on third.

2. These umpires did not fully understand the obstruction rule and its effects and administration, and placed the runner back at third after being talked into it by one of the coaches.