FIL is always right (in his own mind)

[Busted Shins]

So my father-in-law is much older than me (obviously), and therefore is as smart as DD and knows everything. In a debate, God would have met his match.

So I am having a little trouble with this call.

2 strikes on the batter, NFHS. Pitch is eye level, batter twitches shoulders a little, and PU rings her up for a swinging strike. Obviously a home-town call, but in my opinion, there is nothing to be done to continue the at bat.

FIL insists the coach should have appealed for the BU to see if he would reverse the call. Says he has seen appeals of this nature on various levels many times. He variously insists that this is the same as an appeal of check swing/"ball" and/or the rarer occasion when the PU on his own accord says "Partner, did she go?" or similar. FIL continues that the call was so bad that PU should know it was a marginal call, and should therefore be open to an appeal from base coach. Even when I tried to explain there is no appeal on a swinging strike (such as this example), he still insists the PU could and should go for help. The fact that the base coach did attempt to get PU to ask for help, and was told that he (PU) would not consider any discussion, appeal, or help on a swinging strike, is lost on FIL (coach is so lost that this effort is not surprising). I just could not seem to get it across that there was nothing (appropriate) that could be done.

Is there a specific rule (NFHS or ASA equivalent) that answers this specific situation, since experience and common sense don't seem to factor in for FIL? (The basic rule that a batter is out on the 3rd strike won't help)

[Comp]

Plate ump should never go for help on a called swinging third strike. And no, there is no rule in either ASA or FED that says he should.

[GIMNEPIWO]

It is this newbies understanding the world is as Comp sez ... however, for the 1st time the other night prior to our game ... PU says to me that if he comes to me on a check swing that he has called a ball, give the signal of what I saw ... don't just agree with his call ... AND if he comes to me on a check swing that he has called a strike ... do likewise ... I didn't question him on this and it never happened, but it is the first that I heard of that ...

[wadeintothem]

It is this newbies understanding the world is as Comp sez ... however, for the 1st time the other night prior to our game ... PU says to me that if he comes to me on a check swing that he has called a ball, give the signal of what I saw ... don't just agree with his call ... AND if he comes to me on a check swing that he has called a strike ... do likewise ... I didn't question him on this and it never happened, but it is the first that I heard of that ...

This is the same as an umpire making up his own mechanic on anything else. "OK, when I call Obstruction I flap both my arms like a chicken and yell "kukucachoo". So then you could come here and post "Hey, an umpire says he does __________ as his own mechanic, I've never heard of that."

Your partner needs training from competent umpires.

You dont call a strike unless you saw a strike. If you are not sure if its a strike, you call a ball. Hence, there is no reason to EVER go for help on a strike.

As to the OP, there is no "rule" per se covering this - this is an umpire mechanic and training issue. So you would need to reference umpire training materials.

[Comp]

I actually need to correct my post. I said on swinging third strike when I really should have said any called strike. If the plate ump calls a strike, swinging or not they should never go to partner for help.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Well ... I knew he was making stuff up ... he also blew a call by not allowing a Courtesy Runner for the Pitcher/Catcher in the 1st inning ... when the Coach questioned it and asked if it was a new rule ... He replied that "it has always been that way and still is" ... but he never came to me for help on the ruling so I didn't speak up ... should I have ?

[Bretman]

Well, there is this in the NCAA rule book...

15.9.1: On a decision regarding a checked swing, when asked by the catcher, the plate umpire must seek a decision from the appropriate base umpire. Such a request may be made only when the plate umpire has called the pitch a ball.

They actually spell it out under a rule- as they do with so many other things. I don't think this is explicitly in the the rule book for ASA or high school, but it is something I've been universally taught in training and clinics.

[Comp]

On a called ball, correct. On a called strike or called swinging strike, never.

[umpinva]

It is this newbies understanding the world is as Comp sez ... however, for the 1st time the other night prior to our game ... PU says to me that if he comes to me on a check swing that he has called a ball, give the signal of what I saw ... don't just agree with his call ... AND if he comes to me on a check swing that he has called a strike ... do likewise ... I didn't question him on this and it never happened, but it is the first that I heard of that ...

The PU should not go for help to a BU after calling a strike on a check swing. Your partner started off on the right foot when asking you to give him what you saw and don't just agree with him on a questionable check swing that was called a ball. The PU began stumbling when indicating that he would also come to you if he had questions on a check swing that he had already called a strike. Someone needs to correct him and the sooner the better.

As a "newbie" you owe it to yourself that if a partner is instructing you to do something that you do not understand or think may be wrong to question it. If its rule related, have your partner quote the rule, if it's mechanic related, find out where they were taught this and who was the instructor.

[Busted Shins]

Plate ump should never go for help on a called swinging third strike. And no, there is no rule in either ASA or FED that says he should.

Thanks, guys. The world is still round. But I still can't explain it to the flat-earther. Something I anticipated. Thanks for the NCAA cite.