U Trip rule differneces ?

[GIMNEPIWO]

We haven't played in a U Trip tourny in years ... With one coming up next weekend I down loaded the rule book ... One difference that jumped right out is being allowed two AP's and a DP Flex ... Combining those, the Flex can bat for the DP and stay in the game as the DP and not have to play the field ... What else can I look for as I'm reading ?

[Comp]

As far as I know the actual dp/flex rule is exactly the same as asa they just allow additional batters. There are a few other minor differences, the lookback rule follows fed where only possession of the ball is required by the pitcher in the circle. Unless they changed it this year they also make no allowance for the defense to be pulled off the white base to the colored base. Another that I can think of right off is on a pop fly that is catchable with normal effort asa you get 2 outs if a runner commits interference, in Utrip its just 1.

[GIMNEPIWO]

As far as I know the actual dp/flex rule is exactly the same as asa they just allow additional batters. There are a few other minor differences, the lookback rule follows fed where only possession of the ball is required by the pitcher in the circle. Unless they changed it this year they also make no allowance for the defense to be pulled off the white base to the colored base. Another that I can think of right off is on a pop fly that is catchable with normal effort asa you get 2 outs if a runner commits interference, in Utrip its just 1.

I am reading that the DP/Flex is slightly different because of those additional players ( AP ) They can be playing defense as well as batting which would allow the FLEX to bat for the DP but not be required to play defense .... Am I reading it right ?
Thanks ... I'll research those others ... I also see that the OBS rule 8-13-D has different wording ; Like 'subsequent play' not 'subsequent play on another runner' which would allow an obstructed runner to be thrown out after reaching the protected base differently than was being discussed in the previous thread.

[Comp]

I just went back and read it. You are correct, the AP's can play defense for the flex. Talk about keeping a lineup straight a nightmare.

[PDad]

As far as I know the actual dp/flex rule is exactly the same as asa they just allow additional batters. There are a few other minor differences, the lookback rule follows fed where only possession of the ball is required by the pitcher in the circle. Unless they changed it this year they also make no allowance for the defense to be pulled off the white base to the colored base. Another that I can think of right off is on a pop fly that is catchable with normal effort asa you get 2 outs if a runner commits interference, in Utrip its just 1.

I am reading that the DP/Flex is slightly different because of those additional players ( AP ) They can be playing defense as well as batting which would allow the FLEX to bat for the DP but not be required to play defense .... Am I reading it right ?

No, it's the same because the DP has left the game and the 'Flex' is just a regular player at that point (see 5-4D). Their terminology is confusing because they still refer to the player as the Flex after the DP has left the game and the lineup has been reduced.

If the FLEX player is not playing defense, the non-batting FLEX position is eliminated and the FLEX player is out of the game.
Unless the FLEX player is playing offensive in the DP’s position, then the FLEX player may remain in the game and not play defense.
The FLEX position can be re-established if the FLEX player reenters or is substituted for.

[UmpSteve]

As far as I know the actual dp/flex rule is exactly the same as asa they just allow additional batters. There are a few other minor differences, the lookback rule follows fed where only possession of the ball is required by the pitcher in the circle. Unless they changed it this year they also make no allowance for the defense to be pulled off the white base to the colored base. Another that I can think of right off is on a pop fly that is catchable with normal effort asa you get 2 outs if a runner commits interference, in Utrip its just 1.

I am reading that the DP/Flex is slightly different because of those additional players ( AP ) They can be playing defense as well as batting which would allow the FLEX to bat for the DP but not be required to play defense .... Am I reading it right ?

No, it's the same because the DP has left the game and the 'Flex' is just a regular player at that point (see 5-4D). Their terminology is confusing because they still refer to the player as the Flex after the DP has left the game and the lineup has been reduced.

If the FLEX player is not playing defense, the non-batting FLEX position is eliminated and the FLEX player is out of the game.
Unless the FLEX player is playing offensive in the DP’s position, then the FLEX player may remain in the game and not play defense.
The FLEX position can be re-established if the FLEX player reenters or is substituted for.

Caveat: I know nothing about U-trip, but have a great deal of experience with interpreting rules.

That said, I agree with PDad. This is a poorly worded way of saying that 1) if the FLEX has entered offensively for the DP (which actually terminates the DP and FLEX positions, albeit temporarily, possibly), then that player (whom they still are calling the FLEX) has the same opportunity of any other position in the order to play "bench" defensively.

This is actually the same naming conundrum that changed the term "DEFO" to "FLEX"; our NCAA coaches couldn't accept that a DEFO (when no longer a DEFO) could play offense. The other codes changed later solely to match, not because they didn't think DEFO makes sense. (In fact, ISF has a term OFFO, to describe the player in the lineup for whom the DP is playing defensively, and yes, the OFFO can play defense, but is no longer an OFFO when that happens).

[Comp]

G. The FLEX player may be substituted for at any time by a legal substitute.
The DP or an AP may play defense for the FLEX player. If replaced by the
DP, this eliminates the non-batting FLEX position. Unless the FLEX
player has replaced the DP, the FLEX player will leave the game. If
replaced by a substitute, the FLEX position remains in the lineup.

[PDad]

G. The FLEX player may be substituted for at any time by a legal substitute.
The DP or an AP may play defense for the FLEX player. If replaced by the
DP, this eliminates the non-batting FLEX position. Unless the FLEX
player has replaced the DP, the FLEX player will leave the game. If
replaced by a substitute, the FLEX position remains in the lineup.

That looks like the 2012 version. I quoted the portion that changed in 2013 (see 2013 FP Rules).

G. The FLEX player may be substituted for at any time by a legal substitute
and the FLEX position remains in the lineup.
If the FLEX player is not playing defense, the non-batting FLEX
position is eliminated and the FLEX player is out of the game
Unless the FLEX player is playing offensive in the DP’s position,
then the FLEX player may remain in the game and not play defense.
The FLEX position can be re-established if the FLEX player reenters
or is substituted for.

[Comp]

Then they have changed it since last year. I worked a few games last year, paid my registration fee, went to their clinic, never got a rule book, had to download it myself and the tournament I worked was a total cluster and never went back.

[GIMNEPIWO]

OKay ... ASA FED ... The Flex bats for the DP ...The DP has left the game and the lineup is reduced to 9 ... The FLEX now has to bat and play defense

UTrip ... The Flex bats for the DP ... RULE 4-4-G
" If the Flex player is not playing defense, the non batting FLEX position is eliminated and the FLEX player is out of the game unless the FLEX player is playing offensive in the DP's posittion, then the FLEX player may remain in the game and not play defense."