Ball off glove in fair but lands foul.

[GoKorea]

I was watching a high school playoff game yesterday (yes the same as the foul ball topic) and with two runners on(2nd and 3rd) the batter hits a rope down to the first baseman that tips off her glove in fair grounds and lands in foul ground. The ball was curving and probably would have landed foul even if it hadn't been touched. The home plate umpire calls foul and you start hearing about the tip from the offence and the coach comes out and talks to the umpire. The home plate umpire then brings his team together to discuss what they saw. At the end of the meeting the plate umpire places the batter at 2nd base and lets the two runners score, which is most likely the results if no foul had been called. Is this the right placement of runners or should it be something else?

[Comp]

I have always been taught once you ring the foul bell it cant be unrung. No one knows for sure what would have happened on the play. Either way the umpire is going to have a lot of heat to take.

[ajaywill]

The proper placement should have been runners at second and third, batter at the plate with a strike added to the count, play ball.

As Comp said, you don't unring that bell. If the umpire realizes he screwed up, admit it, take the (deserved) heat and move on.

I also don't see the value of getting the crew together. If this game has either a two umpire or three umpire crew, given the placement of the runners at the start of the play, the only umpire that will have a chance at a good angle/look is the PU.

[UmpSteve]

I was watching a high school playoff game yesterday (yes the same as the foul ball topic) and with two runners on(2nd and 3rd) the batter hits a rope down to the first baseman that tips off her glove in fair grounds and lands in foul ground. The ball was curving and probably would have landed foul even if it hadn't been touched. The home plate umpire calls foul and you start hearing about the tip from the offence and the coach comes out and talks to the umpire. The home plate umpire then brings his team together to discuss what they saw. At the end of the meeting the plate umpire places the batter at 2nd base and lets the two runners score, which is most likely the results if no foul had been called. Is this the right placement of runners or should it be something else?

There is one scenario where this could be the right result.

If, when asked, the plate umpire (stupidly) admits the ball was over fair territory when first touched, then we have a misapplied rule that has to be corrected. By rule, that is a fair ball, even though it was ruled foul at the time. We do not unring foul on obviously bad judgment, but we do have to rectify misapplied rules. The plate umpire should have lived with his call, and left it foul, but once he says it was touched fair, the offense is entitled to that reversal.

So, there is now a ruling that has been reversed; and all codes have a rule that applies that says the plate umpire has to decide how to rectify the jeopardy that has affected the teams. The crew isn't meeting to discuss fair/foul, the crew needed to meet to agree on the most likely result. If the crew determined this was the most likely outcome had it been pointed fair from the beginning, then this is the most appropriate result.

[MTR]

Was this a 4-umpire crew? If not, what could any other umpire on the field offer this PU other than a rules interpretation?

Even if they "heard" something, s/he/them are in no position to see the location of the ball when it occurred.

And if the PU had to ask if the touch meant it was a fair ball.......well, that umpire needs to find another game.

[GoKorea]

Was this a 4-umpire crew? If not, what could any other umpire on the field offer this PU other than a rules interpretation?

Even if they "heard" something, s/he/them are in no position to see the location of the ball when it occurred.

And if the PU had to ask if the touch meant it was a fair ball.......well, that umpire needs to find another game.

It was three man crew.