Did I handle this right ?

[GIMNEPIWO]

NFHS Fall Tourny yesterday ... R1 on 1st, 1 out, 2 umpire crew I'm behind the dish ... High pop up down the right field line about 30-40 feet behind the bag ... I exit from behind the dish to the left, the BR stops running about 20 down the line, F2 is in my visual way also ... F1 is running to cover 1st, R1 has not left the bag, F3 is running straight down the foul line, F4 & F9 are in the mix ... I tried to move down the 3rd base line to improve my angle & chance of seeing the ball hit the ground to no avail ... I was completely blocked ... I made no call and let it play out figuring it would be easier to fix a non call than a foul ball call if my partner was able to offer information after the play ... Right move or wrong ?

[MTR]

Right move or wrong ?

Wouldn't that depend on what happened?

Like any other time when blocked, the umpire must try to make adjustments in an attempt to get some type of look even if not the preferred angle.

If that doesn't work, there are two trains of thought. One is to make the fair/foul call based on the position of the ball the last you saw it. Another is to make the call to the benefit of the team that did not block your view. You see this more often when a defender or coach want to get a better view not realizing they are blocking the view that counts.

Whatever you do, sell the call strongly and when questioned by the coaches, simply tell them you were blocked and made the best decision you could based on the information available.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Right move or wrong ?

Wouldn't that depend on what happened?

Like any other time when blocked, the umpire must try to make adjustments in an attempt to get some type of look even if not the preferred angle.

If that doesn't work, there are two trains of thought. One is to make the fair/foul call based on the position of the ball the last you saw it. Another is to make the call to the benefit of the team that did not block your view. You see this more often when a defender or coach want to get a better view not realizing they are blocking the view that counts.

Whatever you do, sell the call strongly and when questioned by the coaches, simply tell them you were blocked and made the best decision you could based on the information available.

I made no call and let it play out ... F9 picked up the ball and threw to F6 covering 2nd, F6 threw to F1 covering first - Double play inning over - As the teams were leaving the field I went out to my partner while 3rd base coach is saying from behind me " you can't let the inning end like that " ... My partner says the ball hit the line, so the result stood. But had he given me other information ( Foul Ball ) , my plan was to put R1 back on first, BR back at bat ... Is that completely stupid ?
In this case both teams were blocking my view ...

[MTR]

I made no call and let it play out ... F9 picked up the ball and threw to F6 covering 2nd, F6 threw to F1 covering first - Double play inning over - As the teams were leaving the field I went out to my partner while 3rd base coach is saying from behind me " you can't let the inning end like that "

Did the alleged coach suggest how YOU should have let the inning end? If the BR got thrown out, maybe the "coach" should worry more about coaching the players to run when they hit the ball.

... My partner says the ball hit the line, so the result stood. But had he given me other information ( Foul Ball ) , my plan was to put R1 back on first, BR back at bat ... Is that completely stupid ?

No, but I'm sort of curous as to how your partner could see the ball hit the line.

In this case both teams were blocking my view ...

Yeah, but the offensive players need to be there.

[GIMNEPIWO]

I made no call and let it play out ... F9 picked up the ball and threw to F6 covering 2nd, F6 threw to F1 covering first - Double play inning over - As the teams were leaving the field I went out to my partner while 3rd base coach is saying from behind me " you can't let the inning end like that "

Did the alleged coach suggest how YOU should have let the inning end? If the BR got thrown out, maybe the "coach" should worry more about coaching the players to run when they hit the ball.

... My partner says the ball hit the line, so the result stood. But had he given me other information ( Foul Ball ) , my plan was to put R1 back on first, BR back at bat ... Is that completely stupid ?

No, but I'm sort of curous as to how your partner could see the ball hit the line.

In this case both teams were blocking my view ...

Yeah, but the offensive players need to be there.

Wow ... First off, I'm not even sure they 3rd base coach was talking to me ... He may have been talking to the 1st base coach or R1 not doing what he thought they should be doing ...

Second, my partner was just into the grass between 1st and second ... I was hoping he had a better view than I did ... He said he saw chalk fly ... The lines were chalked and not painted ...

And thirdly... Why do the defensive players 'not need to be there' ? Especially if you think the 3rd base coach should have told the gal on first ( R1 ) to not be there ... I'm confused

[MTR]

Wow ... First off, I'm not even sure they 3rd base coach was talking to me ... He may have been talking to the 1st base coach or R1 not doing what he thought they should be doing ...

Okay, read it as he was talking to you while passing behind you. As an umpire, you will get that often when there is a close or technical ruling. The "how can you end a game on a call like that" statement as if you are suppose to enforce the rules at the end of the game.

Second, my partner was just into the grass between 1st and second ... I was hoping he had a better view than I did ... He said he saw chalk fly ... The lines were chalked and not painted ...

As long as it was a damp day, that is fine, but when the ground is dry, it is not unusual for people to say they saw chalk when it was nothing more than dust/dirt the ball kicked up. It's goot he could help, but proper NFHS mechanics would have had him inside the diamond.

And thirdly... Why do the defensive players 'not need to be there' ? Especially if you think the 3rd base coach should have told the gal on first ( R1 ) to not be there ... I'm confused

Me, too, since the reference is defensive players. I would think the only defender who should have been in your way on the line should be F3 even though at the depth you noted, I don't see her as a likely candidate to make this play. There is really no logical reason for any of the other defenders to be on the line between you and the ball.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Wow ... First off, I'm not even sure they 3rd base coach was talking to me ... He may have been talking to the 1st base coach or R1 not doing what he thought they should be doing ...

Okay, read it as he was talking to you while passing behind you. As an umpire, you will get that often when there is a close or technical ruling. The "how can you end a game on a call like that" statement as if you are suppose to enforce the rules at the end of the game.

Second, my partner was just into the grass between 1st and second ... I was hoping he had a better view than I did ... He said he saw chalk fly ... The lines were chalked and not painted ...

As long as it was a damp day, that is fine, but when the ground is dry, it is not unusual for people to say they saw chalk when it was nothing more than dust/dirt the ball kicked up. It's goot he could help, but proper NFHS mechanics would have had him inside the diamond.

And thirdly... Why do the defensive players 'not need to be there' ? Especially if you think the 3rd base coach should have told the gal on first ( R1 ) to not be there ... I'm confused

Me, too, since the reference is defensive players. I would think the only defender who should have been in your way on the line should be F3 even though at the depth you noted, I don't see her as a likely candidate to make this play. There is really no logical reason for any of the other defenders to be on the line between you and the ball.

Yeah ... Third base coach could have been talking to me, the BR, R1, the 1st base coach or himself ... Not sure

Yes, damp foggy mountain top morning on a closely cropped bermuda grass field ... Would have been easier to see chalk fly ...

My inexperienced partner started in the right position often, but rarely moved to the correct positioning after the play started ... Although he was out of position, he still had a better view than I did ...

All the defenders were doing what they should be doing ... Not sure how YOU think this should be played ... But they all did exactly what I teach ... A pop up behind first base is gone after by F3, F4 & F9 ... They all had a shot at this ball in no wo-mans land ... It was almost caught and had both F3 & F4 together as they converged on it blocking me along with F1, R1, BR & F2 ... A perfect storm ... Frankenplay ... I am not sure why R1 stayed on the bag except that her coach may have thought the ball was going to be caught in foul ground ... Otherwise she should have been 20 feet or more off the bag ... BR stopped running to first and F2 stopped behind her ... If you were to argue anyone should not have been where they were it was the BR ... F2 was trailing her to first presumably to back up a throw to 1st base but got stuck in her traffic jam ......

[ajaywill]

I made no call and let it play out ... F9 picked up the ball and threw to F6 covering 2nd, F6 threw to F1 covering first - Double play inning over - As the teams were leaving the field I went out to my partner while 3rd base coach is saying from behind me " you can't let the inning end like that " ... My partner says the ball hit the line, so the result stood. But had he given me other information ( Foul Ball ) , my plan was to put R1 back on first, BR back at bat ... Is that completely stupid ?
In this case both teams were blocking my view ...

It's easier to reverse a fair ball call to a foul ball....reset runners, add a strike to the batter's count if she doesn't already have two strikes, batter up, let's play. It sounds like you did everything you could to get a look at where the ball landed, but sh*t happens.

My opinion - you did as well as you could with this play.

[MTR]

I am not sure why R1 stayed on the bag except that her coach may have thought the ball was going to be caught in foul ground ... Otherwise she should have been 20 feet or more off the bag ... BR stopped running to first and F2 stopped behind her ... If you were to argue anyone should not have been where they were it was the BR ... F2 was trailing her to first presumably to back up a throw to 1st base but got stuck in her traffic jam ......

I think you misread my post. I stated that the only defender who had any reason to be on the line between you and the ball was F3. I did not say anything about either runner. F4 & F9 should not be on the line between you and the ball. And I've never seen a catcher back-up 1B by not staying and advancing in foul territory, so really shouldn't have been near BR on line.

I'm just making observations trying to understand everything about how in unfolded. Personally, I think you handled it fine.

[GIMNEPIWO]

I am not sure why R1 stayed on the bag except that her coach may have thought the ball was going to be caught in foul ground ... Otherwise she should have been 20 feet or more off the bag ... BR stopped running to first and F2 stopped behind her ... If you were to argue anyone should not have been where they were it was the BR ... F2 was trailing her to first presumably to back up a throw to 1st base but got stuck in her traffic jam ......

I think you misread my post. I stated that the only defender who had any reason to be on the line between you and the ball was F3. I did not say anything about either runner. F4 & F9 should not be on the line between you and the ball. And I've never seen a catcher back-up 1B by not staying and advancing in foul territory, so really shouldn't have been near BR on line.

I'm just making observations trying to understand everything about how in unfolded. Personally, I think you handled it fine.

F9 was not on the line between me and the ball, she was converging and in the area just beyond the ball ... I just mentioned her to give a better visual as to what the play was and how it unfolded - a high pop up behind first ... The way I teach the play defensively is for F4 to be there make the play there also ... It seems this team teaches it the same way ... It just so happens in this Frankenplay, that as I tried to get in a position to make the call everyone seemed to be in my way ... I was just theorizing what the Backstop ( F2 ) may have been taught to do ... If she was thinking there was going to be a play where the defender ( F3, F4 or F9 ) was going to be making a throw from on the line beyond first base to F1 covering the bag, then being in a backup position on or near the line between home & 1st is where she needs to be ... And she may have been taught to back up 1st on possible double play balls with no runners having a chance to score ... That could put her down the line but not necessarily on it ...

*BTW- Thanks Guys, I was hoping I handled this the best way I could have ... In my limited 'Blue' experience, I had never been in this particular situation ...