Stolen Base - pitcher with ball in circle

[DUGOUTCOACH]

I saw a game with a runner on first base after a base hit. The pitcher was in the circle, but her foot is not on the rubber.The 1st baseman and 3rd baseman were near the circle, waiting for the catcher to give the pitching sign.Timeout has not been asked for or given. The runner on first stole 2nd while the pitcher was in the circle but her foot was still not on the rubber. No attempt was made to get the runner since nobody expected her to steal in that situation. The runner was ruled safe.

I saw a different game (different umpires) where the runner was on 2nd, with the same situation as above, but the runner was ruled out even though she ran straight to the bag.(as did the runner mentioned above) Both games were played under ASA rules.Which ruling is correct?

I have heard multiple opinions both ways but not a clear interpretation of the rule.

[Comp]

I saw a game with a runner on first base after a base hit. The pitcher was in the circle, but her foot is not on the rubber.The 1st baseman and 3rd baseman were near the circle, waiting for the catcher to give the pitching sign.Timeout has not been asked for or given. The runner on first stole 2nd while the pitcher was in the circle but her foot was still not on the rubber. No attempt was made to get the runner since nobody expected her to steal in that situation. The runner was ruled safe.

I saw a different game (different umpires) where the runner was on 2nd, with the same situation as above, but the runner was ruled out even though she ran straight to the bag.(as did the runner mentioned above) Both games were played under ASA rules.Which ruling is correct?

I have heard multiple opinions both ways but not a clear interpretation of the rule.

Had the runner returned to 1st base prior to stealing 2nd? If runner had never returned to 1st as ball was returned to circle they have every right to advance. However, if the runner was on base when the ball was returned to the pitcher in the circle, then it should have been a lookback violation. Being on the pitching plate has no bearing on the rule, but, it must be the pitcher with posession of the ball in the circle.

In your second situation, again, if the runner left the base after the ball was returned to the pitcher in the circle, it would be a lookback violation. Without seeing exactly what transpired on the 2 plays there really is no way of knowing what may have differed in the 2 plays to get different rulings.

[UmpSteve]

This ought to be crystal clear. If the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle, runners cannot leave the base they are stopped on, unless 1) the pitcher makes or fakes making a play on a runner, or 2) the pitcher delivers the next pitch.

Runner is out as soon as the foot leaves the base. Dead ball, no one else can advance, nor can the action of the runner induce the pitcher into thinking a play needs to be made.

There is no other valid condition or reason.

[DUGOUTCOACH]

Thank you for your answers.

I was under the impression that as long as you commited to a base, or back to a base upon the pitcher having the ball in the circle, then it was allowed. (even if you are already on a base).

I have seen many times where a player that has walked, with a runner on 3rd, ran past 1st base, came back to the bag and then broke to 2nd base while the pitcher has the ball in the circle and no play is attempted or made, with the runner called safe. I have also seen it where the batter walked, stopped on top of first base, hesitated, and then ran to 2nd with no play being made and the runner called safe.

The reason I included that the pitcher was not on the rubber, is due to the fact that the runner would not be able to run until after the pitcher released the ball in that scenario.

I understand the "look back rule", where you must immediately advance or go back to the base, but is there a specific rule that addresses the situation I mentioned or does it fall under the "look back rule"?

[MTR]

Snipped for brevity
The reason I included that the pitcher was not on the rubber, is due to the fact that the runner would not be able to run until after the pitcher released the ball in that scenario.

I understand the "look back rule", where you must immediately advance or go back to the base, but is there a specific rule that addresses the situation I mentioned or does it fall under the "look back rule"?

The pitcher's plate is irrelevant to the LBR and everything you have mentioned is covered by the LBR.

[broadband]

Another one to throw into this is 'possession' & 'control' are two different things. Pitcher must have control of the ball in the circle, not merely possession. IE, if she has the ball in her glove, and holding it between arm and side to fix her hair for example, this is possession, and not control, and the runner has the right to advance without the hesitation/LBE rule being applied. ASA speaking.

[Fredegar]

I have seen many times where a player that has walked, with a runner on 3rd, ran past 1st base, came back to the bag and then broke to 2nd base while the pitcher has the ball in the circle and no play is attempted or made, with the runner called safe. I have also seen it where the batter walked, stopped on top of first base, hesitated, and then ran to 2nd with no play being made and the runner called safe.

As others have said, these scenarios are clearly covered in the ASA Rulebook, under the Look Back Rule. Here are some snippets:
Rule 8-7-T-2: Once the runner stops at any base for any reason, the runner will be declared out if leaving the base.
Sounds like this covers your second scenario above.
Rule 8-7-T-3-b: A batter-runner who overruns 1st base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to 1st base or attempt to advance non-stop to 2nd base.
Sounds like this covers your first scenario above.

In both cases, based on your description of the pitcher having control of the ball anywhere in the circle, runner should be out.