What's the call???? Need you opinions.

[txfpcoach]

....

[Ace]

Why was the pitch illegal? What if it stayed in contact with her hand for a split second longer and flew 20 feet in the air, instead of straight down? The runner on first would have stolen the base easilly, and it would have been a called a ball. I just dont understand why you think its illegal.

[Whizzer86]

Let me start by saying this was a pool game nothing of any importance from a situational stance.

10U

Runner on first; pitcher goes through her motion and as the ball is approaching the bottom of her windmill almost to the hip the runner breaks for second on a called steal.(runner is in a "rocker start" position and has a 1 step before leaving the base advantage)

Ball slips from the pitchers hand on contact with her hip and goes behind her but only a foot or so away and to her left. She reacts picks up the ball and makes a throw to second which gets our runner (runner hesitated on the dropped ball).

This was not intentional just a young pitcher who lost control of the ball but had a good presence on mind to follow through with the play.

I debate an illegal pitch.

Blue has a legal pitch, called ball, runner at risk out.

What would your call be. The various blues at the tournament all had differing opinions

Great reaction by the pitcher, she should be commended. If that happens with nobody on it's simply a ball. End result: wild pitch, runners advance at their discretion.

[MTR]

Let me start by saying this was a pool game nothing of any importance from a situational stance.

10U

Runner on first; pitcher goes through her motion and as the ball is approaching the bottom of her windmill almost to the hip the runner breaks for second on a called steal.(runner is in a "rocker start" position and has a 1 step before leaving the base advantage)

Ball slips from the pitchers hand on contact with her hip and goes behind her but only a foot or so away and to her left. She reacts picks up the ball and makes a throw to second which gets our runner (runner hesitated on the dropped ball).

This was not intentional just a young pitcher who lost control of the ball but had a good presence on mind to follow through with the play.

I debate an illegal pitch.

Blue has a legal pitch, called ball, runner at risk out.

What would your call be. The various blues at the tournament all had differing opinions

You didn't state whether the runner lost contact with the bag or not prior to the ball slipping from the pitcher's hand. That is sort of relevant

[txfpcoach]

Here's the relevance we ponder this call all weekend and saw how it could be used to a teams advantage if it was correct. The runner left legally at least from a timing perspective.

However how would you call this:

Pitcher winds up and goes through her motion as she's preparing to deliver the ball she flips it forward into her own glove (just like they do in some warm ups) the ball leaves her hand and travels say 12 inches and she essential becomes her own catcher. She now has the advantage on any base runner.

Do you still have a legal pitch?

Do you now have the LBR in effect immediately as the pitcher has the ball in the circle?

What is the difference between the two situations? other then intentional/unintentional and even if it's intentional what rule would be in effect if any.

[txfpcoach]

ASA Rule 6 Section 11 is pretty clear I guess a dropped ball is a live ball

however

(Rule 6 section 3
F. The pitch shall be delivered on the throwing arm side of the body and not behind the back or through the legs.
G. the release of the ball and the follow through of the hand and wrist must be forward and past the straight line of the body

based on these 2 I have Illegal pitch (ball went behind the body and release of the abll was not forward.

[weekend4trvl]

Here's the relevance we ponder this call all weekend and saw how it could be used to a teams advantage if it was correct. The runner left legally at least from a timing perspective.

However how would you call this:

Pitcher winds up and goes through her motion as she's preparing to deliver the ball she flips it forward into her own glove (just like they do in some warm ups) the ball leaves her hand and travels say 12 inches and she essential becomes her own catcher. She now has the advantage on any base runner.

Do you still have a legal pitch?

Do you now have the LBR in effect immediately as the pitcher has the ball in the circle?

What is the difference between the two situations? other then intentional/unintentional and even if it's intentional what rule would be in effect if any.

So with some practice it could be used as a pitch out to your self. It should not be legal.

[txfpcoach]

Here's the relevance we ponder this call all weekend and saw how it could be used to a teams advantage if it was correct. The runner left legally at least from a timing perspective.

However how would you call this:

Pitcher winds up and goes through her motion as she's preparing to deliver the ball she flips it forward into her own glove (just like they do in some warm ups) the ball leaves her hand and travels say 12 inches and she essential becomes her own catcher. She now has the advantage on any base runner.

Do you still have a legal pitch?

Do you now have the LBR in effect immediately as the pitcher has the ball in the circle?

What is the difference between the two situations? other then intentional/unintentional and even if it's intentional what rule would be in effect if any.

So with some practice it could be used as a pitch out to your self. It should not be legal.

Exactly my thoughts

[Whizzer86]

ASA Rule 6 Section 11 is pretty clear I guess a dropped ball is a live ball

however

(Rule 6 section 3
F. The pitch shall be delivered on the throwing arm side of the body and not behind the back or through the legs.
G. the release of the ball and the follow through of the hand and wrist must be forward and past the straight line of the body

based on these 2 I have Illegal pitch (ball went behind the body and release of the abll was not forward.

Good points but the release of the ball and the follow through of the hand and wrist would have been going forward at the time of release and it did not release behind her back or through her legs. What is the call of the famous Randy Johnson pitch that hit the bird flying by (I don't remember)? It din't continue foward, I don't think? Just because the ball deflected is it illegal? Or is that the "past the straight line of the body part of the rule"?

[wadeintothem]

Wow good one!

So the question before us is whether we have an illegal pitch or a dropped live ball.

I think it is just that simple in terms of analyzing this play. You need not confine yourself in your thinking.

Did the pitcher commit an illegal pitch or did the pitcher drop the ball during her delivery?

Rule 6 Section 11 If the ball slips from the pitcher’s hand during the delivery, a ball is declared on the batter, the ball will remain live and the runner(s) may advance at their own risk.

That is my ruling on the play as described. The pitcher did not throw an illegal pitch, the pitcher dropped the ball and as such the ball is live and runners may advance at their own risk.