Force out?

[mikille]

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball chopped over pitcher, fielded by F6 crossing near but in front of 2nd base and collides with base runner going from 1st to 2nd. F6 looked to be attempting to field ball and throw to 1st for final out, but drops ball due to collision. Base runner from 3rd crosses home plate. F4 retrieves ball and tags out runner from 1st that did not make it to 2nd due to collision.

Does the run count? Is so, why? If not, why?

[Bretman]

Does the run count?

No.

If not, why?

Because the third out was a force out.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball chopped over pitcher, fielded by F6 crossing near but in front of 2nd base and collides with base runner going from 1st to 2nd. F6 looked to be attempting to field ball and throw to 1st for final out, but drops ball due to collision. Base runner from 3rd crosses home plate. F4 retrieves ball and tags out runner from 1st that did not make it to 2nd due to collision.

Does the run count? Is so, why? If not, why?

With the info provided, what Bretman said ... But... Is that ALL the information you have or is this your version of the information ? ... There was no INT or OBS call made by an Umpire ? Did F6 have the ball ? The ball did not pass F4 prior to reaching F6 and did F6 have an opportunity to make an out ?

[MTR]

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball chopped over pitcher, fielded by F6 crossing near but in front of 2nd base and collides with base runner going from 1st to 2nd. F6 looked to be attempting to field ball and throw to 1st for final out, but drops ball due to collision. Base runner from 3rd crosses home plate. F4 retrieves ball and tags out runner from 1st that did not make it to 2nd due to collision.

Does the run count? Is so, why? If not, why?

With the info provided, what Bretman said ... But... Is that ALL the information you have or is this your version of the information ? ... There was no INT or OBS call made by an Umpire ? Did F6 have the ball ? The ball did not pass F4 prior to reaching F6 and did F6 have an opportunity to make an out ?

Well, I think since the OP said F6 dropped the ball, she must have had it. If F6 had possession of the ball, it cannot be OBS. And unless R3 intentionally crashed into F6, there isn't INT. Definitely HTBT.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball chopped over pitcher, fielded by F6 crossing near but in front of 2nd base and collides with base runner going from 1st to 2nd. F6 looked to be attempting to field ball and throw to 1st for final out, but drops ball due to collision. Base runner from 3rd crosses home plate. F4 retrieves ball and tags out runner from 1st that did not make it to 2nd due to collision.

Does the run count? Is so, why? If not, why?

With the info provided, what Bretman said ... But... Is that ALL the information you have or is this your version of the information ? ... There was no INT or OBS call made by an Umpire ? Did F6 have the ball ? The ball did not pass F4 prior to reaching F6 and did F6 have an opportunity to make an out ?

Well, I think since the OP said F6 dropped the ball, she must have had it. If F6 had possession of the ball, it cannot be OBS. And unless R3 intentionally crashed into F6, there isn't INT. Definitely HTBT.

Yeah ... HTBT ... But, with bases loaded and 2 outs I have my infield at normal depth ... How F6 gets to this ball which sounds like it was on the 1st base side in front of the 2nd base bag before F4 has a chance at it ... AND has the ball in her glove ... ??? Just wasn't adding up in my book ...

[MTR]

Yeah ... HTBT ... But, with bases loaded and 2 outs I have my infield at normal depth ... How F6 gets to this ball which sounds like it was on the 1st base side in front of the 2nd base bag before F4 has a chance at it ... AND has the ball in her glove ... ??? Just wasn't adding up in my book ...

No argument. Definitely need more information

[MTR]

Yeah ... HTBT ... But, with bases loaded and 2 outs I have my infield at normal depth ... How F6 gets to this ball which sounds like it was on the 1st base side in front of the 2nd base bag before F4 has a chance at it ... AND has the ball in her glove ... ??? Just wasn't adding up in my book ...

No argument there, we definitely need more precise info

[mikille]

The ball bounced over the pitcher toward 2nd base, and came within a foot or so of the base, but on the 1st base side of 2nd base. F6 gloved the ball about shoulder height and was immediately hit by the BR. F4 was behind the play by about 5 feet when the collission occured. And that is what happened because both umpires agreed that is what happened, and declared that the run counts because the out occurred on a tag and therefore it was not a "force out".

[GIMNEPIWO]

[quote="mikille"]The ball bounced over the pitcher toward 2nd base, and came within a foot or so of the base, but on the 1st base side of 2nd base. F6 gloved the ball about shoulder height and was immediately hit by the BR. F4 was behind the play by about 5 feet when the collission occured. And that is what happened because both umpires agreed that is what happened, and declared that the run counts because the out occurred on a tag and therefore it was not a "force out".[/quote]

Both Umpires were wrong then, UNLESS ... R3 had contacted the bag after the collision and was subsequently tagged out returning to the bag ...

So then yes, what Bretman said ... Not sure what rule set you were playing and I don't have a book in front of me, so I can not site the exact rule & wording ... BUT, since R3, by being forced has lost her right to the base she had occupied ( 1st in this case ) and has not reached the next base to which she was forced safely ... No run can score ...

[Bretman]

So why didn't the defensive team's coach file a protest over this? Several good things could of come from that.

- The wronged team could of had the bad call overturned, since this was a clear misinterpretation of a playing rule.

- Two umpires could of learned the correct definition of a force out, hopefully preventing them from making that same mistake again.