Worst Call in Moline !?! MG vs Birm Mustangs

[TravelSoftballDad]

Thanks Slugger...The way you described everything makes complete sense to me. I was standing (filming) from right/center (right on the fence) during both of these plays. It seemed obvious that the 3B ump had the right call and was not happy with the overturn, but I left that info out of my original post cuz there is no way I could say that for sure. Now that you have spoken with him, however, it makes sense.

[slugger]

Umm...not happy doesn't really accurately describe how angry he was...I can promise you that. He said he'd never attend another nationals in Illinois.

[TravelSoftballDad]

Also some great info from Bretman !!

[wadeintothem]

How about the worst call being in the jynx vs SJ Sting game. Jynx player hits a 2-run homer in the 7th inning to give Jynx a one run lead. Girl who hit home run as she is roundind bases gets high five from one of her players. Sting coach goes and argues that was an assist to the runner. Umpire agrees and rules home run no good and runner is out, no runs score. Score reverts back to 1-0 Sting wins and goes on to win the championship.
Might have not all facts as I was not at that game. Maybe someone can add to ths or give a better account.

I dont understand how this could be protested and upheld.

This doesnt wash at a national.

[wadeintothem]

OK...so I'm just a dad and I'm asking for some help here. Tight game and Birmingham Mustangs were just given another "questionable" call (another time / another post). Birmingham Mustang bunts the ball 1 -2 feet inside the line toward first base. The ball rolls 10-15 feet and MG first baseman attempts to field the ball well inside the chalk. Runner

No call made meaning runner safe at first and no interferance or obstruction.



Thanks !!

Without reading this whole thread and I'm sure its been covered since we are on page 6.. btw you dont have to start watching until 1.43... minute gone forever..

This play is obviously INT.

TD's and UICs are everywhere and they are all in phone contact at a national.. and sometimes by radio. Minutes to arrival.

Interference is a judgment call.. true.. that is why the reason for the noncall would likely be the protestable (rule) issue. Maybe the coach wanted to yell and point instead of trap the umpire by simply asking him why this wasnt INT? But I dont know what the coach or umpires were thinking. That would have been an interesting post game.

Still a bad call though. The "wreck" rule has nothing to do with a defender fielding a batted ball. I'm not sure why there is even a question of a noncall here.

[rbi]

IMO with the "crash" Rule and even the "assisting" high five home run trot and many others, some umpires lose sight of the INTENT of some rules, and why they are in place.


Shoot a few years ago in a semi-final ASA National opposing teams third base coach grabbed runner rounding third to hold her up from being thrown out at the plate, now that is assisting a runner, now of course NO call in that case

[TravelSoftballDad]

In regards to the play at 3B that went against MG on the ball bobble. I was told from the 3B umpire that he was furious that his call got overturned and he specifically used language when talking to his partner behind the plate to tell him he had the right call (the original call was safe due to no ball control)..The 3B umpire went for help out of courtesy to the coach and was happy none the least when the "big dog from IL" overturned his call.

I wasn't there, so I can't comment..just telling you what an actual umpire on the field said.

Hey Sluggs...I watched my copy of both these plays last night. I was standing in right center filming from the 200' fence and inside the park fence. Anywhoo...I had forgotten that I had taped the conference following the 3B call. It shows your friend meeting with Big Dog and 1st Base Ump. They chat and your friend, who claims to have had the call correct, change his own call by indictating baserunner standing on 3rd is out. Maybe I misunderstood you, but your assertions are that Big Dog changed the call. If that is the case, why did he fold like a biiiaaacttch and change it himself?

For what it's worth, my copy clearly indicates 3rd baseman never had ball and was not transferring to throw and dropped it. If there was a way to put video on here, I would.

[slugger]

My post said that the 3B umpire was angry that he went to the umpire behind the plate about the play and asked for help (out of courtesy to the coach that asked for it)..When umpires do that, there is a protocol for how you ask your partners for help. One way lets your partners know you saw it clearly and are asking for help to make the coach happy but you need to support me on the call i made. "I got a safe on the play as the fielder never had possession of the ball." Or you go to your partners and are really wanting to know if they saw something different b/c you were blocked or aren't totally sure of the play "From my angle it appeared like there was a bobble. Did you have a better angle and see anything differently?"

In the end, if you go to your partner for help, you're saying "what do you have?" It's the way in which you pose the question. Whether the partner agrees with your call or doesn't, the umpire that made the original call is the one that typically makes the final signal as to what was decided when the umpires gather for a conference. The exception is on a verbal appeal such as "did she go" or "did she pull her foot at the bag".

It's not a matter of "caving", it's a matter of mechanics and sometimes you eat sh.t when your partner doesn't support you. That's the reason for the anger afterwards...I clearly wasn't at the event nor have I seen it. I simply am telling you what I was told from the 3B. I just asked him about the event and he told me the story of this particular game and event. No reason to make it up. I suppose he could be telling me a story, but not sure why he would. Has no idea I am posting his side on here.

[Bretman]

My post said that the 3B umpire was angry that he went to the umpire behind the plate about the play and asked for help (out of courtesy to the coach that asked for it)..When umpires do that, there is a protocol for how you ask your partners for help. One way lets your partners know you saw it clearly and are asking for help to make the coach happy but you need to support me on the call i made. "I got a safe on the play as the fielder never had possession of the ball." Or you go to your partners and are really wanting to know if they saw something different b/c you were blocked or aren't totally sure of the play "From my angle it appeared like there was a bobble. Did you have a better angle and see anything differently?".

What is this, like the "super secret handshake" of umpiring? I've been to a lot of clinics, dozens of umpire meetings and two ASA National Umpire Schools and have never been taught that there are two different ways to ask for help, one if you really want it and another just to appease a coach.

My default approach is more along the lines of "If you were in position and saw it, and are sure of what you saw, then you DON'T go for help just to appease a coach." That's just wasting time and delaying the game. If there is some legitimate reason why you might have missed something, then you go for help.

In the end, if you go to your partner for help, you're saying "what do you have?" It's the way in which you pose the question. Whether the partner agrees with your call or doesn't, the umpire that made the original call is the one that typically makes the final signal as to what was decided when the umpires gather for a conference.

Not just typically but always- if the umpires are following the exact procedures in the umpire manual.

[wadeintothem]

My post said that the 3B umpire was angry that he went to the umpire behind the plate about the play and asked for help (out of courtesy to the coach that asked for it)..When umpires do that, there is a protocol for how you ask your partners for help. One way lets your partners know you saw it clearly and are asking for help to make the coach happy but you need to support me on the call i made. "I got a safe on the play as the fielder never had possession of the ball." Or you go to your partners and are really wanting to know if they saw something different b/c you were blocked or aren't totally sure of the play "From my angle it appeared like there was a bobble. Did you have a better angle and see anything differently?"

Well, I hate to break it to you but this is a complete fabrication/myth for FP softball. In fact, if you go for help on a judgement call you better damn well have missed something due to position/event or for certain specific reasons. This is not tolerated at all at national level umpiring. There is no competent umpire that I know that engages in this type of act or could get away with it with any competent partner.

In the end, if you go to your partner for help, you're saying "what do you have?"

That question is not even allowed.
I have no clue where you get this stuff.

It's not a matter of "caving", it's a matter of mechanics and sometimes you eat sh.t when your partner doesn't support you.

You are 100% wrong in your opinion of national quality level officiating and what is permitted, expected, taught, or advocated.