Drop 3rd strike...

[MTR]

Mike,
I don't see how you can say that as an IC you work for yourself. Sure you can turn down an assignment, but someone is paying your fee. No different than any self-employed tradesman or contractor. The guy that puts an addition on my house is an IC, but you better believe he works for me when he is at my job. I can fire him any time I want. Even an independent contractor has to answer to who he is contracted to. In the case of a friendly it is the teams playing that day.

Obviously, you are correct. The difference in this case is that I have no agreement with you. My agreement is with the association. There is no doubt you can put pressure on the association, even terminate or refuse to renew you agreement with the association. However, in some areas, that would leave you without a source for game officials. I'm sure it is different in many areas, but like I said before, I can only talk about how local umpires are affected.

As an IC do you carry your own liability insurance? Maybe even E&O coverage?

Through whichever sanctioning body, most umpires carry liability, supplemental health and dental insurance. Many umpires will also pick-up additional insurance through their local association, NASO, NFHS or some other officials' group. But remember, as far as Workmen's Comp, that comment was made on the condition you were my employer, not a consumer contracting my services.

Both teams pay each game so there is no ethical issue there.

Okay, I guess I worded that incorrectly. Maybe I should have said "hired" or "contracted" by the team where that coach can directly affect the umpire's income and integrity if s/he reacts to what they consider a bad call or poor job, whether it was or not.

Just like all of the umpires report the cash they make doing games on their income taxes?

Hell, I report every penny. Murphy's Law has nothing on me. Besides, it is awfully difficult to write off all my expenses if I don't report correlating income.

[MTR]

You are the Dwight Schrutt of Hey Bucket

Wow, that's good! It might even be funny if I knew WTF a Dwight Schrutt is or was.

I really don't care, but thank you for playing, "I'm As Mature As a 5th Grader".

[Killer Rabbit]

You are a mid level TB coach Sam, The reality is your opinion on umpiring means that much. The opinion of a midlevel TB coach. Can you guess what 99 out of 100 umpires in a room would think about what you think about our profession?

Looks like an insult, reads like an insult, it's got to be an insult. Sounds to me that the position of a "midlevel TB coach" is not thought of very highly in the umpiring community, thus inferring that only the "toplevel" TB coaches have opinions that matter and the rest of the coaching community (which would be the majority) can take a flying leap.

Sorry Wade, I have a lot of respect for you and you have helped me in the past, but lately (starting from the DD becoming waitresses post) you've been angry. Very angry.

[wadeintothem]

Are you kidding? I already have cause! Everyone hates you. Your fired.

This is your ilk sammy.. This is your coaching buddy. So quick to take an umpire to task .. even when we are correctly pointing something out. Obviously Ace is a fairly fairly sickening representation of a coach, but a good representation of the type we were discussing to begin with.

You think its out of line for me and MTR to take the Ace's of the coaching world to task?

For me, I think Ace = case closed.

[wadeintothem]

You are a mid level TB coach Sam, The reality is your opinion on umpiring means that much. The opinion of a midlevel TB coach. Can you guess what 99 out of 100 umpires in a room would think about what you think about our profession?

Looks like an insult, reads like an insult, it's got to be an insult. Sounds to me that the position of a "midlevel TB coach" is not thought of very highly in the umpiring community, thus inferring that only the "toplevel" TB coaches have opinions that matter and the rest of the coaching community (which would be the majority) can take a flying leap.

Sorry Wade, I have a lot of respect for you and you have helped me in the past, but lately (starting from the DD becoming waitresses post) you've been angry. Very angry.

The only position of coach where I have witnessed umpires kissing ass is at the NCAA level. If you have an NCAA umpire working ASA ball and they see an NCAA coach in the stands.. and you pay attention.. you just might witness that umpire kissing ass between innings. That is because in many areas NCAA coaches have influence in assignments.

In ASA, coaches opinion mean nothing... at virtually any level and they have little to no influence in anything.
So that is my point of reference.. calling Sammy a mid level TB coach is not an insult .. it is what he is. Is he a D1 coach? Does he coach Team USA? Does he coach pro FP teams? Does he have an 18G championship under his belt? A mens FP major?

No..

He doesnt.. he is a midlevel TB coach... just a fact, not an insult.

If you guys believe you already are top level coaches who just havent reached the top level; some undiscovered diamond of coaching, thats on you. I'm just going by results thus far.

Edited to add a thought..

Obviously, we speak different languages. Elite Umpires, such as MTR, have earned that. Its not given, its not self awarded. Its a title bestowed by a board in OKC after very demanding criteria is met. His name is in the HOF of OKC. I am not an Elite umpire.. maybe one day, maybe, but I am not. MTR is. I'm at the mid level of umpiring.

You guys call yourselves gold and you are gold. You guys call yourselves elite, and you are elite. Nothing is earned. Nothing is regulated. You all have self awarded titles. Efforts to regulate it.. are opposed by guess who? Sam.

Thats the only explanation I can think of for a guy with a mid level umpiring resume, coaching a midlevel team, being offended by being called a midlevel coach. I offended him because he self awarded himself a higher level..and I degraded that.

My bad.

[Skarp]

Obviously Ace is a fairly fairly sickening representation of a coach, but a good representation of the type we were discussing to begin with.

To be accurate, this thread began with an honest request for information, and your first contribution to it was to roll your eyes because not every coach understands the D3K rule...and we were off to the races with this scintillating exchange.

I personally am glad for the contributions of various experts on these boards, including umps, but I'll be condescended to by an umpire for about a New York second before I swing back. It's like my gardener sneering at me because I have a question about the rhododendrons. Ain't happening.

[wadeintothem]

Obviously Ace is a fairly fairly sickening representation of a coach, but a good representation of the type we were discussing to begin with.

To be accurate, this thread began with an honest request for information, and your first contribution to it was to roll your eyes because not every coach understands the D3K rule...and we were off to the races with this scintillating exchange.

I personally am glad for the contributions of various experts on these boards, including umps, but I'll be condescended to by an umpire for about a New York second before I swing back. It's like my gardener sneering at me because I have a question about the rhododendrons. Ain't happening.

ha! amazing that you hold that opinion for yourself, but you would expect me or MTR to back down and have reserved opinion on apparent idiocy and at a minimum, ignorance.'

Perhaps you think you are paying us even right now? While I type? More of some "you owe me so drink some humility".

I dont think so skarp.. I'm just a dude posting on a message board here. I'll answer questions when I know, argue if I feel like it.. but I'll also call an idiot an idiot, be that a coach, parent, or an umpire.

We dont owe you squat .. so stop pretending we do.

How much can you guys shovel at us in one thread?

Umpires owe you guys the same as a cop writing you a ticket owes you because he is being paid by your tax dollars.

We owe our association to do our job THEY hired us for on the field. On or Off the field, I dont owe you, your team or your coaches squat. Lucky for you guys, I have a passion for the sport and feel I owe the sport at one level and I owe the association Im working for at another. Because I owe the sport and am a student of the game, you now, by default and through no fault of your own, get included in my thinking. I owe the Association to do the job I agreed to do for them, as a journeyman independent umpire, and I owe them to enforce the rules they hired me to enforce as they expect me to enforce them. You see I get called to do games. My phone rings and an assigner says "would you like to work here". I accept or decline. I work for an association.

I dont work for some coach and I damn sure dont work for a parent. You guys are in dream land with some of this stuff.

The exception of the friendlies where some umpire comes out and works for a pass the hat and a hot dog does not apply to contracting with an umpire association for services... and I dont work that way anyway. Some do though, but not me.

Hey, you can always stop using umpires... of course, that would require both sides to stop lying and cheating and to self police the safety of your beloved dd's.. so thats some job security right there, it can't be done... and thats why we dont owe you. We can tell you to piss up a rope, take a hike, eject you, cash your check, and we'll be back on the field the next weekend.

Thanks boss!

lol

[Skarp]

Obviously Ace is a fairly fairly sickening representation of a coach, but a good representation of the type we were discussing to begin with.

To be accurate, this thread began with an honest request for information, and your first contribution to it was to roll your eyes because not every coach understands the D3K rule...and we were off to the races with this scintillating exchange.

I personally am glad for the contributions of various experts on these boards, including umps, but I'll be condescended to by an umpire for about a New York second before I swing back. It's like my gardener sneering at me because I have a question about the rhododendrons. Ain't happening.

ha! amazing that you hold that opinion for yourself, but you would expect me or MTR to back down and have reserved opinion on apparent idiocy and at a minimum, ignorance.'

Perhaps you think you are paying us even right now? While I type? More of some "you owe me so drink some humility".

I dont think so skarp.. I'm just a dude posting on a message board here. I'll answer questions when I know, argue if I feel like it.. but I'll also call an idiot an idiot, be that a coach, parent, or an umpire.

We dont owe you squat .. so stop pretending we do.

How much can you guys shovel at us in one thread?

Umpires owe you guys the same as a cop writing you a ticket owes you because he is being paid by your tax dollars.

We owe our association to do our job THEY hired us for on the field. On or Off the field, I dont owe you, your team or your coaches squat. Lucky for you guys, I have a passion for the sport and feel I owe the sport at one level and I owe the association Im working for at another. Because I owe the sport and am a student of the game, you now, by default and through no fault of your own, get included in my thinking. I owe the Association to do the job I agreed to do for them, as a journeyman independent umpire, and I owe them to enforce the rules they hired me to enforce as they expect me to enforce them. You see I get called to do games. My phone rings and an assigner says "would you like to work here". I accept or decline. I work for an association.

I dont work for some coach and I damn sure dont work for a parent. You guys are in dream land with some of this stuff.

The exception of the friendlies where some umpire comes out and works for a pass the hat and a hot dog does not apply to contracting with an umpire association for services... and I dont work that way anyway. Some do though, but not me.

Hey, you can always stop using umpires... of course, that would require both sides to stop lying and cheating and to self police the safety of your beloved dd's.. so thats some job security right there, it can't be done... and thats why we dont owe you. We can tell you to piss up a rope, take a hike, eject you, cash your check, and we'll be back on the field the next weekend.

Thanks boss!

lol

That's all very interesting. I haven't the slightest clue what it has to do with anything I've written, but it was certainly fun to read.

Feel free to point out where I've ever said you owe me anything and I'll be happy to respond to your comments to that effect. Otherwise you might try reading what I actually did write and directing your comments toward that.

The only time I've ever spoken of an umpire's obligation on this board was with respect to his obligation to call a game fairly and correctly...back when you guys were up in arms when some poor fellow had the temerity to suggest that the strike zone of one of your brethren was a wee liberal.

My point in this thread has merely been that any intelligent and moderately civil expert in any field isn't going to expect non-experts to possess his level of knowledge in that field, and isn't going to act like a pompous tool toward them whenever they don't.

Since I never said umps "owed" anything to anyone, I can only assume your cop analogy was in response to my earlier comments about coaches, parents and players being an ump's customers. If so, I accept your analogy as valid. Cops do serve the public, indirectly, like umps serve us indirectly. A cop might think that he doesn't have to answer to the public for his job performance, but if enough complaints are filed he will soon find out otherwise. If you are suggesting that there is no similar grievance vetting process for umpires...that the most inept among you are completely immune from consequences no matter how many people complain, or to whom...then I stand corrected. And I also stand prepared to level a much more serious indictment of your profession.

[Ace]

Are you kidding? I already have cause! Everyone hates you. Your fired.

This is your ilk sammy.. This is your coaching buddy. So quick to take an umpire to task .. even when we are correctly pointing something out. Obviously Ace is a fairly fairly sickening representation of a coach, but a good representation of the type we were discussing to begin with.

You think its out of line for me and MTR to take the Ace's of the coaching world to task?

For me, I think Ace = case closed.

For the record, I'm not Sammys coaching buddy. And you are right in the fact that if you want, you can call an idiot, an idiot, as you pretty much have been doing. I am also correct in saying, you sir, are a dick. You dont HAVE to talk down to people but you choose to. Dick. You have a power trip. Dick. Your a know it all. Dick. If that makes me a bad coach in your mind, fine. Immature, sure. Dick. Maybe that makes me a CHEATER in your mind. Dick. I dont really care, because at the end of the day, I am really, REALLY amused by your amazing amount of love you have for yourself, your opinions, and your unending knowledge of fastpitch softball rules. Dick. Your come off like a softball nazi, not like an umpire. Maybe its because I have spent litterally my entire life playing baseball, softball, and now coaching, that I have seen your kind, and laugh at you. your a mole. Go back to your hole in the ground, and look for a rule that nobody knows about and find a way to call it this weekend. Then pull your mask over your smug little sneer, satisfied in your superiority. Dick.

[Ace]

You are the Dwight Schrutt of Hey Bucket

Wow, that's good! It might even be funny if I knew WTF a Dwight Schrutt is or was.

I really don't care, but thank you for playing, "I'm As Mature As a 5th Grader".

That might even be funny if I knew how to play "I'm as mature as a fith grader" Never heard of that game. Go study the rule book, dick. Why are you such a social retard? Softball cop.