International Tie Breaker

[MoeFoes]

Here is situation #1
Runner #55 on second.
Batter #24 gets K'd. Out #1
Batter #10 gets walked.
Runner on 1st & second with 1 out.
Batter #44 cranks a line drive between 1st & 2nd.
2nd baseman stretches and catches the line drive (Out #2) and then tags 1st (Out #3) for the double play.

Who is the runner at 2nd and who is the batter for the next international tie breaker?

note* batter in the line up after #44 is batter #16

Here is situation #2

Runner #55 on second
Batter #24 gets K's (Out #1)
Batter #10 pops up (Out #2)
Batter #44 shows bunt and pulls back on the ball
Runner #55 is thrown out at 3rd. (Out #3)

Who is the runner at 2nd and who is the batter for the next international tie breaker?


one other note: If the runner on 2nd is not the correct runner. Is it a illegal substitution and batting out of order? How should a coach approach this?

[umpinva]

Here is situation #1
Runner #55 on second.
Batter #24 gets K'd. Out #1
Batter #10 gets walked.
Runner on 1st & second with 1 out.
Batter #44 cranks a line drive between 1st & 2nd.
2nd baseman stretches and catches the line drive (Out #2) and then tags 1st (Out #3) for the double play.

Who is the runner at 2nd and who is the batter for the next international tie breaker?

note* batter in the line up after #44 is batter #16

Here is situation #2

Runner #55 on second
Batter #24 gets K's (Out #1)
Batter #10 pops up (Out #2)
Batter #44 shows bunt and pulls back on the ball
Runner #55 is thrown out at 3rd. (Out #3)

Who is the runner at 2nd and who is the batter for the next international tie breaker?



one other note: If the runner on 2nd is not the correct runner. Is it a illegal substitution and batting out of order? How should a coach approach this?

Situation 1: #44 goes to second.
Situation 2: #10 goes to second.

Other Note: The incorrect runner at second might not be an illegal sub, she may be an unreported sub.

To appeal the questionable runner at second: When all players are in position, request time before the first pitch and discuss you observation with the PU.

[wadeintothem]

Since its the batter scheduled to bat 9th, the best way to know..

Look at line up - Who is up?

The batter listed above that batter goes to 2nd.

[HugoTafurst]

Since its the batter scheduled to bat 9th, the best way to know..

Look at line up - Who is up?

The batter listed above that batter goes to 2nd.

Simple, ain't it...
I think everyone gets confused because they try to think of it as the way eligible courtesy runners are defined by different organizations. (last out vs. last batted out).

[MoeFoes]

Since its the batter scheduled to bat 9th, the best way to know..

Look at line up - Who is up?

The batter listed above that batter goes to 2nd.

Thanks Wade..
But what if the runner on second is the incorrect runner.

[wadeintothem]

I had to chew on it because of course its not specifically addressed per se as an effect for illegal runner as part of a tie breaker.

It would be an illegal substitute - so basically its nothing.

If there hasnt been a pitch - fix it
If there has been a pitch - they are legal.

[wadeintothem]

Yeah, I just cant find anything else. Maybe MTR has a take on it. To me it seems like the only rule which would apply is 6.C.5.

Any other substitute and they would at least be disqualified - with this, it seems to me this could only be an illegal substitute runner - I see nothing to make the case of a punitive response in to that scenario.

IMO, its best to manage this as an umpire with some preventative umpiring. That kind of mess I dont like to deal with.

[Comp]

8-7-Y is about as close as you are going to get to it in the rules, but even it doesnt fit. In my opinion it should apply to putting an improper base runner on in and ITB, and just as with 8-7-Y, the coach should also be gone for USC.

[MTR]

Seems there should be some kind of penalty if the opposing team tries to sneak a speedster onto 2B in an ITB

Why? If wrong, it is the umpire's fault.

It is very clear in the ASA RS #54. Second paragraph: It is the responsibility of the umpire and scorer to notify the teams involved as to which player starts each half inning at second base. If the wrong player is found to be on 2B, the umpire is to correct the error even if there has been a pitch or the runner has advanced.

[DonnieS]

Seems there should be some kind of penalty if the opposing team tries to sneak a speedster onto 2B in an ITB

Why? If wrong, it is the umpire's fault.

It is very clear in the ASA RS #54. Second paragraph: It is the responsibility of the umpire and scorer to notify the teams involved as to which player starts each half inning at second base. If the wrong player is found to be on 2B, the umpire is to correct the error even if there has been a pitch or the runner has advanced.

MTR, thanks, this is very important information. It can get noisy at that point, though normally, the runner at 2nd has always been easy to pick, look at who's next to bat, and go up one line. Or look at who's the slowest on the team, usually the same person.