Foul or Fair?

[jofus]

ASA tournament this weekend, I'm calling pitches from the 1st base side dugout, and a girl hits one right over third base, and to my eyes, the ball hits about 10 feet past the bag, missing the line by about 4 inches. The PU doesn't call a foul, which I question to no one in particular, and not extremely loudly. But, I knew that he heard me, he gave me a little sideways glance at the end of the play.

After the third out, as I'm walking out to coach 3rd, I see him wandering out past third, looking at the ground. I figure I know what's coming, and sure enough, he says "Coach, look at this"

So, he's found a mark behind third, which I really don't think is the mark from the previous "hit", because it's too close to third, but he lays a ball on the mark and says, "see, fair ball". I said, "well, if you say so, but I never saw any chalk fly", and he responds "No, it didn't hit the line, but the edge of the ball was over the line (which is was, where he lay the ball, but in the air, the part of the ball on the ground was outside the line), so that's a fair ball. Pretty good eyes, eh coach? I don't miss many".

I wanted to say something along the lines of "If you were so sure of your call, why are you out here looking for a mark to justify it?", but I held my tongue, and just said somethine like "yep, better eyes than mine".

So, my question is (cause I honestly don't know the answer), is a ball that hits just outside the line, with the very edge of the ball over the edge of the line, a fair ball, even if no part of the ball actually touches the chalk, or is it foul?

TIA



Oh, and later, we finished the 5th inning with approximately 3-4 minutes left by my time, and I asked him on the way to the dugout "So, this inning will be it, we're almost out of time, right?", to which he responded "Yeah, as long as we get the batter out here in the box before time runs out".

I said "But sir, doesn't the next inning officially start as soon as the third out is recorded?" He looked at me funny for a minute, and said something like "yeah, this will be the last inning". I just smiled at him and walked on to the dugout.

He also didn't use ITB for the first 2 innings after time ran out, until another ump that was watching told him that they were supposed to use ITB.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Not a Blue, just another DA Coach ... but I think that if any part of the ball is over the edge of the line than it is in fact a fair ball ... just as if any part of the ball touches the strike zone, it would then be a strike ... or, I could be wrong ...

[NEOUA Blue]

Fair territory: That part of the playing field within, and including, the first and third base foul lines from home plate to the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards.

Fair ball: A legally batted ball that:

B. Bounds over or past first or third base, which is in fair territory, regardless of where the ball hits after going over the base.

F. First falls or is first touched over fair territory beyond first, second or third base.

If the ball bounded over the bag it is fair, you weren't quite clear on if it bounded over the bag or was a line drive. If the ball touched any part of the foul line when it hit ground it was fair. Flying chalk may or may not be an indicator of a fair ball so don't rely on that. I've had flying chalk on foul balls and no flying chalk on balls that hit the line.

[jofus]

Sorry Blue, it was a line drive, to clarify. If it had been a grounder, it would have been fair, it crossed the bag about a third of the way in from the foul line. Speaking of which, why is it called a foul line (and a foul pole) if the ball is fair if it hits it?

But, anyway, my question is does the ball actually have to physically "touch" the line, or is the very edge of the ball overlapping the edge of the line, but in the air (not actually physically touching the line) enough to make it a fair ball? If the ball were square, this rule would be simpler, although that may make some other parts of the game a little complicated

To put it another way...if, at the moment the ball hits the ground, you were at ground level, looking up the line, you could see air between the ball and the line, but if you were directly above the ball when it landed, part of the line would be obstructed by part of the ball....if that makes sense

[wadeintothem]

Any part of the ball over the foul line is fair. The ball is roughly 4 inches wide, it doesnt need so land fair by the 1 inch of the ball that touches the ground.. any of the width of the ball.

[bigsig]

So you think, sitting in the 1B dugout, that you had a better angle on that ball hit down the left field line than the UMP standing at HP looking directly down the line? Amazing!

[jofus]

So you think, sitting in the 1B dugout, that you had a better angle on that ball hit down the left field line than the UMP standing at HP looking directly down the line? Amazing!

Since the dugout at this field starts very close to home plate, then I feel I had as good a look up the third base line as he did, or very close to it. The way it was hooking slightly, by the time it landed I was probably looking closer to stright down the actual flight path than the ump was. I never said he had a bad angle, I was asking about the actual rule (although, I still maintain that the mark he found wasn't from the "hit" in question, he just looked around until he found something to support his call, IMHO).

[Coach11]

To put it another way...if, at the moment the ball hits the ground, you were at ground level, looking up the line, you could see air between the ball and the line, but if you were directly above the ball when it landed, part of the line would be obstructed by part of the ball....if that makes sense

Easiest way to understand it in this scenario is to visualize it as if the ball had, instead of landing behind third, continued all the way down the line and over the fence in the air, it would have nicked and ricocheted off of the foul pole, making it a fair ball.