Batting Out of Order

[coachE]

I need some help with what I thought was an obvious rule, but I had two blues tell me I was wrong. Team has B4 and B5 swapped in their batting order. B4 is due up with two outs in the first, but B5 comes up instead and makes the 3rd out. B4 then leads off the second and grounds out. We appeal because B6 should have been the correct hitter and therefore there should be two outs (B4 out stands, and B6 out for being skipped). Umpire says NO - you can't get two outs for one batter and says there's only one out and B7 is up.

Am I wrong on the rule? Triple Crown / ASA if that matters.

[ASAPAump]

From what I can see, you're right. Unless the matter is confused because of the inning change, but I don't see how. I have no idea which person the umpires were calling the "one out."

Without the BOO call in this first inning, ASA 7-2-C: "The first batter in each inning shall be the batter whose name follows the last player who completed a turn at bat in the previous inning." An alternative argument that leads to the same result: after the defenders leave their normal fielding positions, they have lost the right to appeal BOO. In either case, B5's trip to the plate last inning is now is legal, and the batter at the plate this inning should be B6.

Since B4 batted instead of B6, B4's out stands, B6 is out for being skipped, and B7 comes to the plate with 2 outs.


Here's an interesting twist for which I am not sure of the answer:
B4 is scheduled, but B5 bats and makes the 3rd out. If the BOO had been brought up here, then B4 should be out for being skipped. But there are already 3 outs, and this case does not qualify for a 4th out appeal. Can you still appeal BOO? Would this affect who is the next proper batter in the next inning? (ASA)

[MTR]

I need some help with what I thought was an obvious rule, but I had two blues tell me I was wrong. Team has B4 and B5 swapped in their batting order. B4 is due up with two outs in the first, but B5 comes up instead and makes the 3rd out. B4 then leads off the second and grounds out. We appeal because B6 should have been the correct hitter and therefore there should be two outs (B4 out stands, and B6 out for being skipped). Umpire says NO - you can't get two outs for one batter and says there's only one out and B7 is up.

Speaking ASA

B4 and B5 cannot both be out as neither meet the requirement for a 4th out appeal. This seems like a God rule issue. If the 3rd out is B5, the appeal should not be accepted and B6 leads off the next inning. If the appeal is accepted as the 3rd out, B5 leads off the inning.

I believe the first option would be preferable for the umpire.

[ASAPAump]

Mike, in the OP, they did NOT appeal the BOO in the prior inning, which put B6 as the proper batter. THEN when B4 came up to bat in the next inning, they appealed BOO. Since there were no outs at the start of the inning, they can get the usual 2 outs for the BOO. B4 for making out, and B6 for missing his/her turn at bat.

I agree with the situation you gave. I guess I would not honor an appeal and bring B6 up next inning. However, if the situation was convoluted a bit more... 2 outs, B7 due to bat, B1 bats instead. B1 makes out for the 3rd out, but without the appeal, B2 is now the proper batter in the next inning. You've just skipped the (presumably) worst batters on the team, and are now back to the top of the line-up. Is this proper?

[MTR]

Mike, in the OP, they did NOT appeal the BOO in the prior inning, which put B6 as the proper batter. THEN when B4 came up to bat in the next inning, they appealed BOO. Since there were no outs at the start of the inning, they can get the usual 2 outs for the BOO. B4 for making out, and B6 for missing his/her turn at bat.

D'oh! You are right, I missed the "lead off" part. Thanks for catching that.

I agree with the situation you gave. I guess I would not honor an appeal and bring B6 up next inning. However, if the situation was convoluted a bit more... 2 outs, B7 due to bat, B1 bats instead. B1 makes out for the 3rd out, but without the appeal, B2 is now the proper batter in the next inning. You've just skipped the (presumably) worst batters on the team, and are now back to the top of the line-up. Is this proper?

Yep and that actually creates a conundrum of sorts in ASA. Hmmm...sounds like time for a rule change or "adjustment" as some may say.

[ASAPAump]

Thanks Mike. On a side but related note, after reading thoroughly through the BOO rules for this thread, and through the rule clarifications and casebooks, I was wondering the following.

In May 2007, ASA posted a rule clarification regarding the 3rd out of an inning and who would be the proper batter in the following inning:

Play 2: With one out, B7 is scheduled to bat, however B8 bats. B8 hits a fly ball that is caught for the second out of the inning. The defense appeals that B8 batted out of order and the umpire calls B7 out for the third out of the inning. Who is the leadoff batter in the next inning?

Ruling: B8. In this case, since the second out of the inning was made by B8 and the third out was made by B7 for failure to bat in the proper order, B8 is now the leadoff batter in the next inning. When the batter declared out is the third out of the inning the correct batter to leadoff the next inning is the player who would have come to bat had the player been put out by ordinary play. (Rule 7, Section 2 D 2 d)

I know in my head that B8 would be up, I see it here, and that's what I've followed thus far. But I can't seem to justify it with the way the rulebook is worded.

2-D-2d. If the batter declared out is the third out, the correct batter to lead off the next inning shall be the player who would have come to bat had the player been put out by ordinary play.

Yup, I get that, so B7 was declared out, so B8 would be up. But...

EXCEPTION: If the incorrect batter is called out as a result of their time at bat, and is scheduled to be the proper batter, skip that player and the next person in the line-up will be the batter.

I know that we apply the exception to during an inning. For instance: 0 outs. B7 scheduled to bat, B8 bats instead. B8 makes out, and DC appeals BOO. We have B7 out for missing turn at bat, and B8's out stands. B8 is skipped and B9 comes to bat with 2 outs. So, is the exception also for (c), not just (d)?

And if the exception is for (d) as it seems to be written (since it follows d), shouldn't the exception apply to the batter for the next inning, too, not just skipping a batter during an inning? In that case, B9 would be up in the rule clarification because B8 already finished her turn at bat, made out, and her out stands, so we skip her and move onto B9.

I guess I'm just confusing myself.

[nohesitation]

I agree with the situation you gave. I guess I would not honor an appeal and bring B6 up next inning. However, if the situation was convoluted a bit more... 2 outs, B7 due to bat, B1 bats instead. B1 makes out for the 3rd out, but without the appeal, B2 is now the proper batter in the next inning. You've just skipped the (presumably) worst batters on the team, and are now back to the top of the line-up. Is this proper?

“Holy loophole Batman”