What is your take on this ?????????????(FRIENDLY)

[luckyone]

How do you feel when the other team coach is calling time outs, killing time, changing pitchers or managing the clock with a few minutes left on a friendly for the time to expire and win the game or keep the score tied. When my DD's coach does it its fine but when another coach does it to my DD's team it hurts. And I see it all the time from 10u and up. You see it more with the good teams is this called good coaching or just plain and simple chicken ?????????

[MTR]

How do you feel when the other team coach is calling time outs, killing time, changing pitchers or managing the clock with a few minutes left on a friendly for the time to expire and win the game or keep the score tied. When my DD's coach does it its fine but when another coach does it to my DD's team it hurts. And I see it all the time from 10u and up. You see it more with the good teams is this called good coaching or just plain and simple chicken ?????????

I think some would consider this more "bush" league than chicken. Others will tell you is it just part of the game, live with it.

Personally, I think a good team wins by playing the game, not by finding ways to avoid it.

[jofus]

We played a game last year in a tournament with that stupid drop dead rule, where when time runs out, you go back to the score of the last inning. It was a wet morning, but not too bad. The other team got on top of us in the first inning because of a few errors (our girls never played good at 8 am ). The ump was allowing the pitchers to call timeout and toss the ball to a coach to dry it if necessary, which was fine.

To make a long story short, we started hitting the pitcher in the 2nd inning, the coach called timeout and talked to her, and for the rest of that inning, she asked to dry the ball about every other pitch. We got through our half of the third fairly quickly, and went into the bottom of the third down 7-2. She asked to dry the ball every pitch that inning, and of course the coach was taking his time. We had bases loaded with one out and down 7-5 with the middle of our order coming up when time ran out. We lost a 2 inning game 7-2.

Yes, this was a tournament, but it was still chicket poop coaching, imho. Maybe that's what you need to do sometimes to win tournaments, but I would rather sleep well at night personally. I guess I don't have what it takes to be a top softball coach.

[FPdaddy]

In a sport where a game clock is a natural part of the game (basketball, football, etc.) clock management is crucial.

In a game like softball, where there is NOT supposed to be a clock...these deliberate stalling techniques are BUSH. In a perfect world, we'd have tourneys without clocks, but that will NEVER happen.

However, the so-called DROP DEAD rule is totally unecessary! The ONLY reason for this rule is greed. I understand the need to have time limits on games...BUT any inning that is started with the clock running should be completed. Simple solution is to limit the # of teams playing in the tourney!

Keith

[coolstuff]

I've encountered drop dead rules ONLY in pool play, when a win isn't as critical (unless you want that choice 1st round bye and sleep-later game time.) I guess it must be more critical to keep the tournament on time than let pool games push back bracket games.

We played in a tournament with the revert-to-last-inning drop dead rule. We were the home team and came from behind to take a 2 run lead with one out in the bottom of the inning with a few minutes left in the game. The opposing coach went to the mound to stall, which allowed us the time to realize the situation we were in - if game time expired while we were still at bat, we would lose a game that we were actually winning at the time. We took the opportunity to devise our plan. The opposing coach went back to his dugout. When play continued, the 3rd base coach intentionally sent the runner on 3rd early - out #2. Then the batter (who happened to be DD) left the box and entered the dugout - out #3. (So were those some kind of sacrifice outs? Can a runner sacrifice? But I digress.) The opposing team took the field with less than 2 minutes of game time. They managed to get a runner on but time expired and we won.

It wasn't the right way to win a game, although I think the right team won the game.

We returned to that same tournament this past fall. They had the same drop-dead rule, but with a twist. If the home team was at bat and had the lead when time expired, then play ended and the home team won. If the visiting team was at bat regardless who had the lead at the time, or the home team was at bat and behind when time expired, the score reverted back to the end of the previous inning. It's still kind of funky but it didn't affect any of the pool play we were in.

I agree that a game clock is not used outside of travel ball tournaments, but you have to weigh that with the necessity to keep the tournament on schedule. And once in bracket play, every tournament I've ever been a part of continues play until the end of the inning.

[Sam]

This argument always cracks me up...."softball isn't a timed sport like football and basketball"....what a joke. The only time you will be playing a full 7-inning game is at ASA Nationals and possibly a tournament championship game. Otherwise you will be playing under a time limit...so what is wrong with time management? The answer is: Nothing. Its part of the game...part of 98% of all the games your team plays...so you better get good at it....if you don't like another team stalling on you, don't fall behind....you choose not stall, live with the consequences, knowing that "you chose not to protect your team from losing." Keep doing that and losing....you won't be coaching very long. You play the game according to the rules and one of the big rules for the vast majority of our games is the time limit.

[ssarge]

However, the so-called DROP DEAD rule is totally unecessary! The ONLY reason for this rule is greed. I understand the need to have time limits on games...BUT any inning that is started with the clock running should be completed. Simple solution is to limit the # of teams playing in the tourney!

The reason as far as I am concerned is that my team has the game after. And we have a plane to catch. This would be true irrespective of the number of teams in the tourney.

And with shortened recruiting windows such as mandated for D1 this past fall, the answer is NOT to have less teams able to compete. It is an elitist argument, and while the most established teams would not suffer from such limitations, the vast majority of teams would. Their players won;t be seen, and it is a serious limitation for the player who wants to matriculate to the college level. Doesn't help the colleges, either, since the need by 4-year colleges in America is for about 5,000 players per year. Have to see them / find them somewhere, and the coaches would much prefer to see them in one place.


Not sure what level of software is played without a clock. ALL SP has a clock. And most FP. Certainly, it is arguable how long the block of time allocated for the game should be, but it is reality that there IS going to be a clock for virtually all softball games. Might as well learn to work it.

As for working it to WIN a showcase or pool game - to each his own, I guess. Seems like a weird priority to me. I'd rather get one more kid one more AB in front of colleges than worry about stalling so that a score will / will not revert. Mindless.

[umpinva]

What amazes me is when the players walk on and off the field for five innings after having their pre-inning huddles, teams not being able to complete the toss down to second base without several players misplaying the ball, this simple action becoming a two minute comedy of errors. When it comes down to crunch time and the team that's behind with only a few minutes left, now wants to go into overdrive so they can get up to bat again to possibly tie or win the game.

As an umpire I do not get caught up in these deadline dramatics. I inform the coaches that the pace of the game was set during the first inning and we are not going into warp speed now.

Keep in mind that as players and coaches have tactics to speed up or delay the game, an umpire can always have a question regarding the line-up. The plate or base/s could need brushing off. Guess it's all about "time management".

[yoyo]

I would guess that the people who are stalling or pumped up about other coaches stalling in drop dead games,or for that matter concerned about winning friendlies are mostly new or obsessed an have yet to realize that winning friendlies is completely unimportant. Competing, learning, and recruiting are the most important aspects of friendlies and exposure tournaments.

[Sam]

I would guess that the people who are stalling or pumped up about other coaches stalling in drop dead games,or for that matter concerned about winning friendlies are mostly new or obsessed an have yet to realize that winning friendlies is completely unimportant. Competing, learning, and recruiting are the most important aspects of friendlies and exposure tournaments.

I take it you don't coach....if you approach friendlies solely from a standpoint of teaching and competing, losing 3 games every Sunday....you won't have a team very long. The players LIKE to win. The parents LIKE to win. You better do what you can to win at least 2 games and competing and learning maybe one game.

Exposure tournaments are a different animal. They are solely for exposure and winning means nothing.