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by dusty » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:21 am

Schmick wrote:In 6 years of pitching lessons I've not heard any of those terms. Course I'm not in the cage or really even close enough to hear everything being said.

I have a few questions for the pitching coaches here.

1. How long should a pitcher go to the same coach before changes are made?

2. Is it normal for a pitcher to lose velo as she grows? For example my pitcher could routinely hit 60-61 MPH at age 13. Now at age 15 she is only hitting 57-59 MPH. Her coach says she's too tight and over thinking, Im hoping she just isn't tuning the coach out and regressing.

3. Would pitching coaches be upset if one of their students worked with other pitching coaches from time to time to maybe emphasize something the normal pitching coach hasn't emphasized?


From about 10u to early 14u I was constantly gunning my kid who was somewhere in the 50's and seemed stuck there. She developed her riseball in her first year of 14u and started racking up the K's so I didn't care if she was throwing 55 or 75 and stopped looking at her speed. During her breakout HS season a couple of parents asked me what her velo was and replied that I had no idea.

That summer she went to a showcase camp where they posted pitcher speeds online so I looked up her jersey number and saw 62-64 mph speeds posted for her with only a couple of other pitchers throwing that fast or faster. Now entering her Jr year of college she still throws about that speed although the camp setting was indoors w/no batter vs current live outdoor action.

My point being that I see a speed drop off from high 50's to low 60's as maybe not being a speed drop off at all. My Rx would be to try putting the pocket radar away for awhile and after about a year sneak a reading in without her knowledge and see what you get.
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by Schmick » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:24 am

In the cage in the back yard I have a jugs radar cube that she will go out and throw at a day or two a week. Part of her regimen is tracking her pitch speeds. 25 pitches at the radar cube, writes down all the speeds and averages them out.

Took her to a different pitching coach last week, after 5 mins she was hitting 63 on the coaches radar. Then when we got in the car after the lesson she said that her other coach didn't want her to finish square like this one did.

I have noticed that coaches in their 40s and 50s teach one way, coaches in their 30s another and coaches in their 20s fresh out of college teach differently again.

So do I keep her with the coach shes been with who has focused on things other than velo for a while but has all the D1 connections amd has sent girls to all the P5 schos or do I switch her to an older coach who focused on velo but may not have all the same connections?

I have sort of taken a hands off approach for about 2 years and during that time the only thing that's really increased is the amount of tik tok videos
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by Capone » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:00 am

That's tough. Speaking from the perspective of a pitcher dad, i would ultimately go with the pitching coach that I thought would make her a better pitcher, regardless of contacts. The team she's on should help drive the coaches to see her play (my assumption).

Out of curiosity, is there a way to check the radar you're using? Maybe it's old :) My pocket radar clock always seems to be lower than what i've seen college coach at showcase or our org coach clock at. who knows though.
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by curveballerguy124 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 pm

Schmick wrote:In the cage in the back yard I have a jugs radar cube that she will go out and throw at a day or two a week. Part of her regimen is tracking her pitch speeds. 25 pitches at the radar cube, writes down all the speeds and averages them out.

Took her to a different pitching coach last week, after 5 mins she was hitting 63 on the coaches radar. Then when we got in the car after the lesson she said that her other coach didn't want her to finish square like this one did.

I have noticed that coaches in their 40s and 50s teach one way, coaches in their 30s another and coaches in their 20s fresh out of college teach differently again.

So do I keep her with the coach shes been with who has focused on things other than velo for a while but has all the D1 connections amd has sent girls to all the P5 schos or do I switch her to an older coach who focused on velo but may not have all the same connections?

I have sort of taken a hands off approach for about 2 years and during that time the only thing that's really increased is the amount of tik tok videos


Ive allways said velocity is not the end all be all to pitching if it were Greg Maddux would never have had the career he had in baseball. Moreover, Mike White would never have had the success he had in Men's fastpitch and Cat Osterman would never have made the Olympics twice!!! All three threw well below average in their sport and yet had amazing success. Movement, spin, consistency and pinpoint accuracy is what made them great.

I would never discount velocity either, look at Monica Abbot, Kelly Barnhill, and Rachel Garcia, in the mens game there was Pete Meredith, Ty Stofflet and Adam Folkard. Point is there is a place for every kind of pitcher so don't be ruled by velocity as your deciding factor...

As for the coach with the connections, those connections mean squat if your kid can't pitch well. Also the age of the coach means nothing as long as they teach the right stuff with passion! Thats my .02
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by Schmick » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:23 pm

curveballerguy124 wrote:
Schmick wrote:In the cage in the back yard I have a jugs radar cube that she will go out and throw at a day or two a week. Part of her regimen is tracking her pitch speeds. 25 pitches at the radar cube, writes down all the speeds and averages them out.

Took her to a different pitching coach last week, after 5 mins she was hitting 63 on the coaches radar. Then when we got in the car after the lesson she said that her other coach didn't want her to finish square like this one did.

I have noticed that coaches in their 40s and 50s teach one way, coaches in their 30s another and coaches in their 20s fresh out of college teach differently again.

So do I keep her with the coach shes been with who has focused on things other than velo for a while but has all the D1 connections amd has sent girls to all the P5 schos or do I switch her to an older coach who focused on velo but may not have all the same connections?

I have sort of taken a hands off approach for about 2 years and during that time the only thing that's really increased is the amount of tik tok videos


Ive allways said velocity is not the end all be all to pitching if it were Greg Maddux would never have had the career he had in baseball. Moreover, Mike White would never have had the success he had in Men's fastpitch and Cat Osterman would never have made the Olympics twice!!! All three threw well below average in their sport and yet had amazing success. Movement, spin, consistency and pinpoint accuracy is what made them great.

I would never discount velocity either, look at Monica Abbot, Kelly Barnhill, and Rachel Garcia, in the mens game there was Pete Meredith, Ty Stofflet and Adam Folkard. Point is there is a place for every kind of pitcher so don't be ruled by velocity as your deciding factor...

As for the coach with the connections, those connections mean squat if your kid can't pitch well. Also the age of the coach means nothing as long as they teach the right stuff with passion! Thats my .02



I've had 3 sons go through all the baseball scouting and recruiting and though we always hear talk about movement and location, the first thing ever out of an scouts mouth when discussing a pitcher is "whats the velo?"



Now I'll be the first to admit that I'm learning this softball stuff as I go, I grew up playing baseball, the softball girls were all fat and played in shorts on the PE fields when I was in HS. My extended family only had boys and they all played baseball. My kids all played baseball, even the youngest, who is now 15 played baseball until she was 10 and I couldn't avoid softball any longer. I didn't like softball. The fields are too small, baselines too short, bats are too light and I hate slappers. But I'm learning to like it and my kid, she loves it.
When we go to Orlando, Denver, PGF, wherever she goes, coaches come and see her because of the teams she plays on and because her pitching coach has recommended her. Her pitching coach has introduced her to several scouts and coaches at Mary Nutter and most importantly to me, her pitxhing coach pushes the values on to her that I would push on to her. Even if she doesn't go to a P5 or even a D1 school, she will be better off in life because of her pitching coach
This week I discussed my concerns with velocity with the coach and she said that they hadn't worked on it but
would.address it at this months lessons. Most of it though I feel falls on the player who has not been focusing on her bands and leg workouts
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by dusty » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:34 pm

I was pretty nervous when my kid committed because she didn't play high level travel ball and she was going to a weak P5 school where pitching and defense were their biggest weaknesses. I drew a sigh of relief when the school got a in-conference highly regarded grad transfer who was immediately anointed as the #1 so I thought my kid could spend her first year of college ball grinding for what ever innings she could get and learning the college game.

The grad transfer was about the same height as my kid but was more physically mature in her early 20's and threw in the high 60's. She was the kind of pitcher that if you plunked into a reasonably competitive HS age travel tourney she'd likely be intimidating enough to dominate most if not all of the competition. The thing she couldn't do at least in the 1 year stretch of her career that I saw was stop giving up free bases. It wasn't like she was all over the place either, I'd often wonder why blues didn't seem to be giving her spots but it happened far to often to be attributable to an individual umpire's strike zone and about half-way through the season my kid took her spot in the rotation.

So I guess the point of my post is that speed is certainly important but it isn't the kind of difference maker in college that it is in HS or travel ball. At about 70+ speed is very significant at all levels but even the few that have that can't have that alone to be successful. It sounds like you're kind of uncertain about which approach to take with your kid's pitching instruction Schmick so I'd suggest trying to simply things by letting your dd take ownership of it. Since she's had a sampling of various instructors ask her which one she thinks gives her the most confidence. Forget velo, forget college connections, just ask her which one she thinks going to gives her the best chance of success.

Edit to add: After reading your post more thoroughly Schmick it looks like you've got a PI that you believe in so if your dd feels the same way I'd stick with her.
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