Game Face Masks

[Dropn N]

Two pitchers hit in the head yesterday.14U Scorpions at TCS heard she's going to be ok. A-Rod lines one off Indians Huff's head and the ball richocheted 275 feet in to RF, heard he should be fine as well .

[MTR]

I am continually amazed at how much credit is given to the bat. Bat performance, (if you are not using a composite that broke in past the rules or a juiced bat) has dropped since 2000. The bats have made some small advances but the difference here is not the bat. I have to work very hard to be certain that my bats don't perform beyond the rules. It's not difficult to make a bat that blows the rules away. I am cool with the limitations but staying under them is not a trivial or inexpensive task. I could release a bat tomorrow that hits a ball 40 feet farther.

Well, it isn't the bat itself and distance isn't the issue, at least, not in this thread. Much to the dismay of the reactionaries. a wood bat could cause the same injuries softball is now experiencing. However, the aluminum and composites do allow for lighter bats which obviously increases bat speed. The part the bat plays is that it provides the player with less strength and skill to hit the ball harder and faster then if they were using wood or a heavier aluminum bat. This means an increased number of possible injuries

In SP, they've dumbied down the balls to allow for better reaction time. Many are now using .52/275 balls. They will leave the bat at 98 mph, but reportedly slows down much quicker. They will travel just as far as the present ball, but it will be the batter's skill and strength that causes it to do so, not the bat. The testing also shows the impact of the ball is of a lesser force reducing the catastrophic effects of being hit by a batted ball. Unfortunately, ASA is a bit unsure of the results of previous testing by other parties and are doing the own research and testing now.

[Daddylawman]

I am continually amazed at how much credit is given to the bat. Bat performance, (if you are not using a composite that broke in past the rules or a juiced bat) has dropped since 2000. The bats have made some small advances but the difference here is not the bat. I have to work very hard to be certain that my bats don't perform beyond the rules. It's not difficult to make a bat that blows the rules away. I am cool with the limitations but staying under them is not a trivial or inexpensive task. I could release a bat tomorrow that hits a ball 40 feet farther.

These cute little girls are getting more training and are getting stronger than they ever had or were. When I go to a 12u softball game and watch the girls I am amazed at how much the level of play has elevated. They don't have to wear a mask to save them from a bat. They have to wear a mask to save themselves from each other.

The only way I can get behind the idea of de-tuning bats is in response to the higher level of play. But that's not healthy for the game itself. What happens when we reach the point where we are producing bats that are the same as wood and kids still get laid-out on come-backers? Shall we de-tune wood? Like it or not, because every little girl's parents want little suzy to play her best and get her hitting, pitching, and fielding lessons, the game has changed dramatically for the better in the last two decades. The higher level of play means more risk. The only way to insure the safety of your player from the risks of a hard hit or thrown ball is to use protective gear.

My eight year old son got a thrown ball in the kisser. he nearly lost his new permanent teeth. The dentist said that if he got hit again before the teeth got a chance to tighten up he would lose them. So, I put a mask on his batting helmet and made him wear a fielding mask. I'm a very traditional Baseball guy and If I had the power, I would mandate their use.

My son's experience made me acutely aware that the choices for protective equipment are very limited. So, I'm sitting here looking at a sketch of a cross between a batting helmet and a lacrosse helmet. There is a visor that looks right for diamond sports, and a place for a pony tail to go through. It has some cool features I could not find on other masks or helmets. I just applied for a patent for the unique concept. I don't know if it's going anywhere but I figure I will have done my part to make personal safety cool.

Sorry if my wording was unclear. I agree with you. I should have referred to what the girls are able to do, not the bat per se.

[MTR]

I'm a very traditional Baseball guy and If I had the power, I would mandate their use.

Commie bastard!!!

[Tumblebug]

I'm a very traditional Baseball guy and If I had the power, I would mandate their use.

Commie bastard!!!

Is that for my baseball proclivity or that I would mandate the rule?

[Tumblebug]

I am continually amazed at how much credit is given to the bat. Bat performance, (if you are not using a composite that broke in past the rules or a juiced bat) has dropped since 2000. The bats have made some small advances but the difference here is not the bat. I have to work very hard to be certain that my bats don't perform beyond the rules. It's not difficult to make a bat that blows the rules away. I am cool with the limitations but staying under them is not a trivial or inexpensive task. I could release a bat tomorrow that hits a ball 40 feet farther.

Well, it isn't the bat itself and distance isn't the issue, at least, not in this thread. Much to the dismay of the reactionaries, a wood bat could cause the same injuries softball is now experiencing. However, the aluminum and composites do allow for lighter bats which obviously increases bat speed. The part the bat plays is that it provides the player with less strength and skill to hit the ball harder and faster then if they were using wood or a heavier aluminum bat. This means an increased number of possible injuries

In SP, they've dumbied down the balls to allow for better reaction time. Many are now using .52/275 balls. They will leave the bat at 98 mph, but reportedly slows down much quicker. They will travel just as far as the present ball, but it will be the batter's skill and strength that causes it to do so, not the bat. The testing also shows the impact of the ball is of a lesser force reducing the catastrophic effects of being hit by a batted ball. Unfortunately, ASA is a bit unsure of the results of previous testing by other parties and are doing the own research and testing now.

I don’t think I completely agree with your first paragraph. I agree that a wood bat would cause the same injuries and historical data agrees with us. I agree that a lighter bat increases batspeed to a point and that the less skilled hitter is the bigger beneficiary of that improvement. But the characterization that it would increase injuries is a bit of a leap. You are over estimating the advantage of batspeed.

Using the basic assumption that the bat performs within the rules, we can use the parameters from the USSSA BPF test for the math. The ball cannot leave the bat at a speed more than 1.15 times the combined speed of the bat and ball. The ASA limitation is lower. A well designed wood bat is approximately 1.10

Assuming the pitch speed is the same, a ball hit by a bat with 1 mph of increased batspeed results in a maximum .15 mph higher exit speed. Not taking into account the loss of mass in the equation which is a trade off with batspeed, you would have to swing the bat almost 7 mph faster to gain 1 mph in exit speed. 1 mph in exit speed equals 7 milliseconds less time (or .007 seconds) for a player to react at 40 ft. 7 milliseconds is a tiny amount of time when you consider a blink (equal to the approximate total time available) is 300-400 milliseconds. 7 mph is a huge gain in batspeed and it is not likely that is what you will see with a bat a few ounces lighter.

Your second paragraph has some holes regarding the .52/275 ball. I don’t see how a ball the same size and weight hit at a specific speed would slow down faster when there is nothing different acting on it in flight to make it decelerate. Because it is aerodynamically identical, If it did slow down it couldn’t possibly fly as far unless it was lighter. Moreover, the same parameters taken into account, the ball cannot have less force at impact. You’d have to prove that to me. However, I do agree that less force is transferred to the object struck because it is absorbed internally in the flexure of the ball. Because of that same flexure characteristic it would be more difficult to hit and less forgiving when miss hit. The spin would also be affected. I believe there is very good reason to change to the new standard and ASA will recognize that sooner or later.

[Battle]

Do you think this is the first time the 'mask' discussion has come up? It has come up every 6 months for the last 10 years.

Exactly my thinking when I posted. No worries. That is what my post was intended to make fun of.

And the predictions of certain, relatively near term significant change have one thing in common whether they be "the rest of the country is catching up to CA", "NorCal is catching up to SoCal", or "soon every pitcher/1B/3B will be wearing a mask". They all fall prey to the fallacies of hope and I am tired of reading about sh$t that doesn't interest me. My dd is a great D1 player and all of you (except for the few like 2.6....etc) really get on my nerves with all the repititious posts. Find something that is worthy of my attention or DO NOT POST.

Squirrel Who Knows Raven (and Her Dad)

There....No worries..... I fixed it for you.

[MTR]

I don’t think I completely agree with your first paragraph. I agree that a wood bat would cause the same injuries and historical data agrees with us. I agree that a lighter bat increases batspeed to a point and that the less skilled hitter is the bigger beneficiary of that improvement. But the characterization that it would increase injuries is a bit of a leap. You are over estimating the advantage of batspeed.

I did not say it would increase injuries.

Using the basic assumption that the bat performs within the rules, we can use the parameters from the USSSA BPF test for the math. The ball cannot leave the bat at a speed more than 1.15 times the combined speed of the bat and ball. The ASA limitation is lower. A well designed wood bat is approximately 1.10

Is this based on the assumption that the bats weigh the same?

Assuming the pitch speed is the same, a ball hit by a bat with 1 mph of increased batspeed results in a maximum .15 mph higher exit speed. Not taking into account the loss of mass in the equation which is a trade off with batspeed, you would have to swing the bat almost 7 mph faster to gain 1 mph in exit speed. 1 mph in exit speed equals 7 milliseconds less time (or .007 seconds) for a player to react at 40 ft. 7 milliseconds is a tiny amount of time when you consider a blink (equal to the approximate total time available) is 300-400 milliseconds. 7 mph is a huge gain in batspeed and it is not likely that is what you will see with a bat a few ounces lighter.

Your second paragraph has some holes regarding the .52/275 ball. I don’t see how a ball the same size and weight hit at a specific speed would slow down faster when there is nothing different acting on it in flight to make it decelerate. Because it is aerodynamically identical, If it did slow down it couldn’t possibly fly as far unless it was lighter. Moreover, the same parameters taken into account, the ball cannot have less force at impact. You’d have to prove that to me. However, I do agree that less force is transferred to the object struck because it is absorbed internally in the flexure of the ball. Because of that same flexure characteristic it would be more difficult to hit and less forgiving when miss hit. The spin would also be affected. I believe there is very good reason to change to the new standard and ASA will recognize that sooner or later.

Just passing on the information given to me by the marketers and folks involved in the testing.. I've also heard from players who have been hit by this as a batted ball and the evel of injury sustained as opposed to the present ball. This was a big point of discussion last November in Reno during the ASA Equipment Certification and Standards Committee.

[Tumblebug]

I did not say it would increase injuries.

actually, I guess you said possibly

Is this based on the assumption that the bats weigh the same?

this isn't comparing bats. The rule is regardless of weight.

just passing on the information given to me by the marketers and folks involved in the testing.. I've also heard from players who have been hit by this as a batted ball and the evel of injury sustained as opposed to the present ball. This was a big point of discussion last November in Reno during the ASA Equipment Certification and Standards Committee.

I hope you don't take my comments as arguing. I am not trying to correct or challenge your knowledge but rather fill in with what I know. If I've taken liberties I apologize.

[MTR]

I did not say it would increase injuries.

actually, I guess you said possibly

The point was that the lighter bat would allow more players a greater bat speed which would increase the possibility of an injury-causing hit based on the greater quantity of opportunities.

this isn't comparing bats. The rule is regardless of weight.

Okay, then let me ask this : Is it possible to produce a wood softball bat of the same specs as an aluminum or composite that will replicate the performance levels of the same?