I can't take it anymore

[PDad]

... I still encourage someone to do the quick research and post the link they used to get the list. If I were a parent today I would Damn sure want to know what those numbers say for current college freshman. ...

I found a copy of the 2010-13 list as of 11/17/09.
http://robocoach.websitetoolbox.com/pos ... tcount=167

At that time, there were 12 sophomores and 1 freshman on the list.
- 8 of the sophomores appear on the roster of the school they early verballed.
- 2 verballed to LSU and then signed with UCLA (Paige McDuffie) and UCF (Mariah Garcia) after the retirement of Coach Girouard.
- Kelsey Vincent verballed to Kansas and then signed with ULL (no reason found).
- Cassidy Taylor verballed to Liberty, was still planning on going there late in her junior year, didn't sign with them and isn't on the roster. I couldn't find her signing with anyone or on another roster.

The freshman, Samantha Montes, signed with the school she verballed, Baylor.

[Fredegar]

If you walk into a school's compliance office and tell them that the coach offered your DD a verbal, but she never received her NLI? Just what value does that verbal have?

It's a nice story, MTR, but that simply doesn't happen. I doubt you could share with us a single time you've heard of such a thing actually occurring. Just because a thing can theoretically happen, doesn't mean it will.

At that time, there were 12 sophomores and 1 freshman on the list.
- 8 of the sophomores appear on the roster of the school they early verballed.
- 2 verballed to LSU and then signed with UCLA (Paige McDuffie) and UCF (Mariah Garcia) after the retirement of Coach Girouard.
- Kelsey Vincent verballed to Kansas and then signed with ULL (no reason found).
- Cassidy Taylor verballed to Liberty, was still planning on going there late in her junior year, didn't sign with them and isn't on the roster. I couldn't find her signing with anyone or on another roster.
The freshman, Samantha Montes, signed with the school she verballed, Baylor.

Yes, it's a small sampling, but it shows that verbals have value, even if not officially recognized or binding. And in the rare cases where players do not appear on those college rosters, the majority is because the player changed her mind, not the school.

[Battle]

The early verbals are so common place now that if a kid hasnt verballed as a sophomore people start to ask whats wrong.

I have watched kids change teams because some coaches are suggesting that they can "succeed" in getting the kid committed and that their current coach has failed them. This is with freshman who havent even played their first HS game. I think that it is this mindset that is a big part of the frustration being voiced more and more WRT early verbals.

True. Not to mention all the kids that change majors from what they really want to do. Huge mistake IMO...

[MTR]

Earth to those able to consider the existence of aspects of life outside a rule book:

When my kid was being recruited your example would be retarded due to how often the numbers show it occurred. The vast majority of early verbals ended up at the school and they had signed NLIs. If your concern is about the early verbals that never received/signed an NLI, then I would suggest the number of kids who didn't play because they got pregnant is probably comparable. But I don't think the NCAA has any rules about pregnancy affecting eligibility of student athletes so I don't expect you know what Im talking about.

Kids that are freshman playing for the college they verballed to rather strongly suggests that the coach/college is willing to pay for that kid. Your arguments would make more sense if verbals didn't result in players being on the team they verballed to. Using your own arguments verbals have clear value. Or do you attribute the numbers to kismet.

Want to know the value of my kid's verbal? The result is that she has been happy the last 3+ years at the school she verballed to at 15 and that verbal at the very least saved us an entire year of college costs not to mention what she earned thereafter. If she did not verbal when she did or very soon thereafter, she would not be at that school today as some other kid would have taken her spot. If she had NOT verballed there would have been no NLI to that school. Value that.

Oh but the verbal wasn't what mattered, only the signed MLI. Laughing emoticon laughing emoticon laughing emoticon. Continue to advertise your profound ignorance of aspects of recruiting that can't be found in rules and regulations. Laughing emoticon laughing emoticon laughing emoticon.

I Think I'll Have Another Squirrel

Laughing emoticon

Talk about blind nuts that are not capable of thinking outside their own perceptions. Let me put this in a language you are probably better versed........"whatever".

[DonnieS]

Earth to those able to consider the existence of aspects of life outside a rule book:

When my kid was being recruited your example would be retarded due to how often the numbers show it occurred. The vast majority of early verbals ended up at the school and they had signed NLIs. If your concern is about the early verbals that never received/signed an NLI, then I would suggest the number of kids who didn't play because they got pregnant is probably comparable. But I don't think the NCAA has any rules about pregnancy affecting eligibility of student athletes so I don't expect you know what Im talking about.

Kids that are freshman playing for the college they verballed to rather strongly suggests that the coach/college is willing to pay for that kid. Your arguments would make more sense if verbals didn't result in players being on the team they verballed to. Using your own arguments verbals have clear value. Or do you attribute the numbers to kismet.

Want to know the value of my kid's verbal? The result is that she has been happy the last 3+ years at the school she verballed to at 15 and that verbal at the very least saved us an entire year of college costs not to mention what she earned thereafter. If she did not verbal when she did or very soon thereafter, she would not be at that school today as some other kid would have taken her spot. If she had NOT verballed there would have been no NLI to that school. Value that.

Oh but the verbal wasn't what mattered, only the signed MLI. Laughing emoticon laughing emoticon laughing emoticon. Continue to advertise your profound ignorance of aspects of recruiting that can't be found in rules and regulations. Laughing emoticon laughing emoticon laughing emoticon.

I Think I'll Have Another Squirrel

Laughing emoticon

Talk about blind nuts that are not capable of thinking outside their own perceptions. Let me put this in a language you are probably better versed........"whatever".

and who said credibility cant go negative. The guy probably has some positive qualities - they just have never been demonstrated here, whatever.

[softball65]

I'm certainly no expert on this topic but we are coming into our recruiting years. I'm not sure I see the danger in early verbal commitments. I understand why both side are motivated to do so. But in the end, it really doesn't mean that much. There was a local girl here in who committed to ASU in her sophomore year. Later decided she wanted to play close to home so her parents could watch her play. Not saying that ASU was thrilled about that decision, but she was a good ball player and I can not blame them for wanting to wrap her up. Nor can I blame the kid for wanting to secure a spot on AZ State. I guess I don't see the harm.

As this girl matured and her life came more into focus and she determined what was really important to her, she changed her mind and made a decision based on HER priorities. To me, no harm no fowl.

We've been told that schools will pressure girls to commit or they will move on. HTis is especially true for pitchers. If the opportunity to go to the school that you think works for you at that point in time, presents an opportunity and you verbally commit, so what? Everyone knows that the verbal is like a pinky swear.....it is not a contract. Not sure I see the harm. Maybe I am missing something.... To me it's like a security blanket. I knwo that once a girl commits that other schools are not supposed to talk to them, but that does not mean that the girls can not at some point verbally uncommit and have other schools look at her. regardless of her commitment, for worthy players, schools will know who is she simply from having seen her play, picking up her profile sheet, etc. etc.

What am I missing?

[artomatic]

Everyone knows that the verbal is like a pinky swear.....it is not a contract. Not sure I see the harm. Maybe I am missing something.... To me it's like a security blanket. I knwo that once a girl commits that other schools are not supposed to talk to them, but that does not mean that the girls can not at some point verbally uncommit and have other schools look at her. regardless of her commitment, for worthy players, schools will know who is she simply from having seen her play, picking up her profile sheet, etc. etc.

What am I missing?

Integrity.

[jonriv]

I think the (potential) issue with early verbals is the following(JMO):

1) What they represent is not fully understood by most players/parents

2)It causes an "arms race" among coaches-feeling they have to commit people early and among the recruits who feel that "I have to commit now or I will never get the chance"

3) Most younger players are not in the position to know what the right college might be

4) Most parents are ill prepared to make such decisions that early in the recruiting process

5) The risk of players not putting in the effort after comitting

Of course all of these can be avoided with well informed, strong parenting- but as we all know that is not always the case. I guess the problem I have with them is that if they do not mean anything and that the NCAA does not recognise them- then why are they such a big deal?

[exD1dad]

I gotta disagree with Artomatic on the integrity part for a teenager & the poster who knew the kid who wanted to play closer to home exemplifies this. I don't know about you Arto but I sure didn't know where I wanted to go to college, what career I wanted etc when I was a freshman or even a soph, then my junior year I decided my career path based upon the wrong facts. Those are big decisions & I don't think badly about any child that changes her mind as she matures & I pride myself on my personal integrity. Boys are different & nobody accuses them of "personal ethic violations" when they change before they sign their NLI like that fool with the Aurburn tattoo who's headed to 'bama. He just got more notoriety, more ink etc etc.

I understand how verbals "take off the pressure" and IMHO many of these girls who choose a school early just because they can play ball actually have no idea what their true options are at such a young age. The exception being the top 40 or 50 teams in the country but thats what only about 20% of the D1 teams?

I can't point the finger at coaches just wanting to win & maintain job security & no one here has hard stats of graduation rate, kids that leave programs etc because when I point my finger at them there's 3 more pointing back at me. So parents are to blame as well & all though I don't tell other people how to raise their children most only know what they were taught by their parents (except bucketeers who actually listen to advice of grizzled veterans) lets face it how many softball parents actually played a D1 sport & visited multiple colleges & choose their career all before they could even drive a car?

The system as it is, is what it is & sadly I don't see it changing

[DonnieS]

For the newbies on this board and specially on this subject, many of us have been around the recruiting world, had our kids verbal, both of mine verballed in the middle of their junior year - late by some standards I supposed, and you really only rarely hear about a school - de-committing - in the 6-7 years that I personally have been around it and listed to a lot of smart people, I have heard of one college who decommitted a kid and a lot of noise was made about it. I know personally of one girl who attempted to decommit - but after a bit of time, she and her family , came back and honored the original commitment. And she is a senior now at the same school.

To be specific, the nonsense spewed by MTR, is and has been for a long long time, nonsense. He is probably very knowledgeable about being an umpire - but from the statements he makes about recruiting - my guess is that neither he nor any family member has actually been through the process. NumeroUno, Spazdad, sorry to attack some one personally like this on your board - but the new people that come on here and read his stuff - might think he knows what he is talking about. You guys and most everyone else know, that he does not.