I can't take it anymore

[PDad]

I don't think you can compare softball to football and basketball because it isn't a major revenue generator and it doesn't have the possibility of leading to a lucrative professional career.

- Football and basketball coaches are under much more pressure to win because of the financial implications. Softball is low on the totem pole at most colleges and coaches can seemingly survive by merely not causing any problems for the AD.

- Decommits in football and basketball aren't nearly as prevalent as people believe - it's about 15% for the top 100 players. ...

There is room for improvement in softball recruiting, but I don't think devaluing verbals would be a good move. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer a system where giving your word has some meaning rather than being an empty promise.

The devaluation of the verbal makes it less likely that an 8th grader is being recruited. That is helpful. The verbal is a one-way street. It is an offer to play for a school....with no acceptance by the school....therefore, it is not a binding contract. It should be worthless to the player and worthless to the school.
You advocate blowing up a system that currently works for almost all the participants to "fix" a perceived problem. I'm not in favor of early verbals - especially as they've gone younger and younger - but I'm willing to let them take their course and expecting the practice will evolve based on what happens with them.

Softball isn't revenue generating, but AD's spending bucks on softball fields and programs due to Title IX requirements will want winning programs.
Some schools and AD's want all their sports programs to win and contend, but very few are willing and able to throw more money at the non-revenue sports because there's no ROI. Lots of programs aren't even fully funded.

Softball coaches are relatively cheap dates and easily changeable. At some point, a single softball coach who chooses not to comply with the unwritten "hands off of verballed players" policy will start the snowball rolling down the hill and it won't be long thereafter when all the softball coaches are engaging in a senior year recruiting free for all.

There are 2 things keeping coaches from recruiting verballed players. First, it would be open season on their recruits. Second, you can't trust someone that reneges on their commitments - that's as foolish as a mistress expecting a cheating husband will be faithful to them.

[Kool-Aid]

I don't think you can compare softball to football and basketball because it isn't a major revenue generator and it doesn't have the possibility of leading to a lucrative professional career.

- Football and basketball coaches are under much more pressure to win because of the financial implications. Softball is low on the totem pole at most colleges and coaches can seemingly survive by merely not causing any problems for the AD.

- Decommits in football and basketball aren't nearly as prevalent as people believe - it's about 15% for the top 100 players. ...

There is room for improvement in softball recruiting, but I don't think devaluing verbals would be a good move. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer a system where giving your word has some meaning rather than being an empty promise.

The devaluation of the verbal makes it less likely that an 8th grader is being recruited. That is helpful. The verbal is a one-way street. It is an offer to play for a school....with no acceptance by the school....therefore, it is not a binding contract. It should be worthless to the player and worthless to the school.
You advocate blowing up a system that currently works for almost all the participants to "fix" a perceived problem. I'm not in favor of early verbals - especially as they've gone younger and younger - but I'm willing to let them take their course and expecting the practice will evolve based on what happens with them.

Softball isn't revenue generating, but AD's spending bucks on softball fields and programs due to Title IX requirements will want winning programs.
Some schools and AD's want all their sports programs to win and contend, but very few are willing and able to throw more money at the non-revenue sports because there's no ROI. Lots of programs aren't even fully funded.

Softball coaches are relatively cheap dates and easily changeable. At some point, a single softball coach who chooses not to comply with the unwritten "hands off of verballed players" policy will start the snowball rolling down the hill and it won't be long thereafter when all the softball coaches are engaging in a senior year recruiting free for all.

There are 2 things keeping coaches from recruiting verballed players. First, it would be open season on their recruits. Second, you can't trust someone that reneges on their commitments - that's as foolish as a mistress expecting a cheating husband will be faithful to them.

Your kidding yourself if you do not think its happening right now, I will call it "soft approach", but its damn real, trust me!

[MavFan]

One other thing to consider when looking at the recruiting landscape of football and basketball as compared to softball is the head count versus equivelancy scholarships. If a football player decommits, he is replaced with another full ride recruit. The softball coaches have their allotment of money for the year and must divide that by the number of kids they want to add to their program each year. So in softball, each athlete recruited has a % of scholarship assigned to them by the coach, it is a puzzle that makes last minute decisions for the athlete much more difficult. If Coach A has 4 full rides to divide up for his 2013 class, and has offered 8 kids 2 full rides and 2 50% and 4 25%, he/ she has to have a pretty good idea on who is coming. Where, like I said earlier, a football coach can just plug recruit B to replace recruit A if A goes elsewhere. Softball coaches, want to use all of their scholarship allotment each year, for fear that if they don't, it can be reduced.

[Blind Squirrel]

How can you have a rule forbidding something that has no value to the organization you want to have a rule?

Since verbals in their current incarnation in college softball have tremendous impact on coaches, teams and players, it is indeed a harsh indictment if they have "no value" to the organization charged with oversight of the sport. If in fact that is the case it speaks volumes.

John

[Blind Squirrel]

Not so. The NCAA recognizes they exist and notes they have no value or authority in the recruiting process for ANY sport in the NCAA fold.

If anyone is putting their head in the sand, it is those who think a verbal is a lock and their DD will be going to that school and nothing can change that fact. AND THERE ARE people out there who believe exactly that because they pay more attention to the banter among parents that don't take the whole 5 minutes to research the issue.

Lets take everyone's head out of the sand. Everyone. I encourage anyone to take a whole 5 minutes to research the issue of the value of verbals and post the results here. Do what I did some years ago: Find a list of early verbals 3-4 years ago. Go down the list for each kid and check the current roster of the college the kid verballed to. Does the kid appear as a freshmen on the roster or are they on the roster of a different college as a freshman? If the majority of kids end up playing for the school they VERBALLED to then regardless of whether the NCAA recognizes verbals or whether they are legally binding, verbals clearly have value to the witless victim players, parents, their college coaches and the other coaches who wanted that player.

I rarely post about recruiting for a few reasons including my ignorance of the current landscape. But when I took a whole 5 minutes years ago, ten out of the ten early verbals I checked were on their college's roster. I wasn't stupid enough to conclude EVERY verbal is set in stone. But I did conclude that verbals clearly had value given the trend I saw in the numbers and the early verbals I was personally aware of. I also had the view that any legal aspects or NCAA rules that did or didn't exist were completely irrelevant. Reality is what it is, including being objective.

John Pappas

[MTR]

Anyone ever buy an item from Franklin Mint, Bradford Exchange or any other source of "collectables"? How about baseball cards?

What real value do they have? That's correct, only as much as someone is willing to pay regardless of what you did or paid to acquire it.

If you walk into a school's compliance office and tell them that the coach offered your DD a verbal, but she never received her NLI? Just what value does that verbal have?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Given word and honor which is all fine and dandy, but still neither official or of any real value without the NLI.

[Battle]

Were they verballing as early 3-4 years ago as they are now?

[Blind Squirrel]

Were they verballing as early 3-4 years ago as they are now?

My kid is currently a college senior. When she was being recruited there were kids verballing as early as freshman year (very rare) to significantly more by the beginning of their junior year. From what I've read on here there are way more kids now early verballing and some at an even earlier age. I still encourage someone to do the quick research and post the link they used to get the list. If I were a parent today I would Damn sure want to know what those numbers say for current college freshman. But more troublesome for me is what I've seen over the past four years with the increasing number of kids transferring, having their scholarships cut, etc.

John

[ontheblack]

The early verbals are so common place now that if a kid hasnt verballed as a sophomore people start to ask whats wrong.

I have watched kids change teams because some coaches are suggesting that they can "succeed" in getting the kid committed and that their current coach has failed them. This is with freshman who havent even played their first HS game. I think that it is this mindset that is a big part of the frustration being voiced more and more WRT early verbals.

[Blind Squirrel]

Anyone ever buy an item from Franklin Mint, Bradford Exchange or any other source of "collectables"? How about baseball cards?

What real value do they have? That's correct, only as much as someone is willing to pay regardless of what you did or paid to acquire it.

If you walk into a school's compliance office and tell them that the coach offered your DD a verbal, but she never received her NLI? Just what value does that verbal have?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Given word and honor which is all fine and dandy, but still neither official or of any real value without the NLI.

Earth to those able to consider the existence of aspects of life outside a rule book:

When my kid was being recruited your example would be retarded due to how often the numbers show it occurred. The vast majority of early verbals ended up at the school and they had signed NLIs. If your concern is about the early verbals that never received/signed an NLI, then I would suggest the number of kids who didn't play because they got pregnant is probably comparable. But I don't think the NCAA has any rules about pregnancy affecting eligibility of student athletes so I don't expect you know what Im talking about.

Kids that are freshman playing for the college they verballed to rather strongly suggests that the coach/college is willing to pay for that kid. Your arguments would make more sense if verbals didn't result in players being on the team they verballed to. Using your own arguments verbals have clear value. Or do you attribute the numbers to kismet.

Want to know the value of my kid's verbal? The result is that she has been happy the last 3+ years at the school she verballed to at 15 and that verbal at the very least saved us an entire year of college costs not to mention what she earned thereafter. If she did not verbal when she did or very soon thereafter, she would not be at that school today as some other kid would have taken her spot. If she had NOT verballed there would have been no NLI to that school. Value that.

Oh but the verbal wasn't what mattered, only the signed MLI. Laughing emoticon laughing emoticon laughing emoticon. Continue to advertise your profound ignorance of aspects of recruiting that can't be found in rules and regulations. Laughing emoticon laughing emoticon laughing emoticon.

I Think I'll Have Another Squirrel

Laughing emoticon