USA Jr National Team-ASA

[Trophy Hunter]

Are you just making it up as you go?

What? No way! In fact, I have a 7 year plan to fix everything that ails travel ball. But as it turns out my kid is headed to college soon so I've had to redirect my attentions to a 4 year plan to cure everything that ails college softball. As I'm sure you can imagine this keeps me pretty busy, and occasionally causes me to leave out a word like "/or" when caught in the heat of the moment. I know, I know, it's a serious omission, but hey, we can't all be perfect, right?

[PDad]

I have asked this question outside of Heybucket and nobody seems to know. How often is a junior national team chosen? Is it every two years? What are the age cut offs to qualify?

Thanks for answering this mystical question.

I'll take a shot at it and jmo can confirm/correct.

There are 2 major JWNT competitions, ISF World Championships and Pan American Championship.

- ISF used to be every 4 years, but is now every 2 years with the next one July 1-7, 2013 in Brampton, Canada. The international 19u age cutoff for 2013 is 1994 or later.

- Pan Am occurs every 4 years with the last one in 2010, so the next one should be 2014. The international 18u age cutoff for 2014 is 1996 or later.

The JWNT used to be chosen every 4 years, but is now more frequent due to ISF's new schedule.

[AlwaysImprove]

How they did it before has little bearing on their legal obligation going forward, and most of the players selected last year were likely identified as "elite" prior to the advent of PGF.

I looked at USA baseball and soccer and they both have player identification and evaluation requirements well beyond what ASA has proposed. In both cases, if you don't participate in their events, you aren't going to be considered for their National teams.

End of story.

In softball you have a relative handful of teams that have gone rogue, renounced their affiliation with the NGB, taken actions detrimental to the health of the NGB, yet still want to participate in certain aspects of the NGB's program.

Meanwhile, the NGB has done nothing to restrict any player or club from participating in their sanctioned programs and selection process.

I'm pretty sure ASA is on sound legal ground here.

That isn't to say I agree with their decision.

That reply exactly reflects the mentality of ASA, and foretells why ASA will continue to struggle for many years. JNT, while important will primarily serve as yet another example of why ASA should be dismantled.

The people currently in charge at ASA end up wearing softball getting kicked from the Olympics, crap tanking a nationals system to favor profit taking by Johnson City and Midland, and now crap tanking the Jr National Team in a desperate attempt to remain somewhat relevant. Their approach to fastpitch remains that is a cost center that draws on their "profits" from slow pitch. They have no interest in fastpitch, unless it makes them money.

To cast what has happened at PGF as "a few teams going rogue" is hilarious.

TH, call us when ASA pulls their head outta their butts and fixes some of their internals. Until that happens, JNT is just another ASA step on their way to irrelevancy. For now most people are going to choose a national governing body that seems to understand the sport of competitive fastpich.

[PDad]

You can beat semantics until your balls turn blue, but Soccer is still a valid example because they require registration and participation. ...

No, thank you - I'll stick with the facts. US Soccer is an example of how it should be done, not a justification for what ASA did.

If registration and participation are required, it is a non-issue because US Soccer is an inclusive federation of numerous organizations. The Youth Council includes AYSO, US Club Soccer (ECNL, NPL and others) and US Youth Soccer. If USA Softball was a similar autonomous NGB, it would allow the other sanctions (e.g. LL, PONY, PGF, TCS, etc.) to join as peers of ASA's rec and competitive programs. This would also provide a wider basis of financial support.

Even so, it appears US Soccer does NOT require registration to one of their member organizations in order to be identified. "Training Centers are open to the top players from any team, club or organization at no cost to the player. The purpose of the Training Center program is to identify the best players for the U.S. Soccer Youth National Team program."

Players are invited based on "recommendations provided by top local coaches:
• National Team scouts
• Academy clubs
• State Associations
• Local clubs
• Leagues
• College coaches"

(From http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/youth/pla ... ation.aspx)

As you already know, US Soccer also has several other ways for players to be identified (e.g. Dev Academy, ODP, id2, etc.). ASA is taking a step backward when they require players participate in a specific program or event.

[Trophy Hunter]

Are you just making it up as you go?

What? No way! In fact, I have a 7 year plan to fix everything that ails travel ball. But as it turns out my kid is headed to college soon so I've had to redirect my attentions to a 4 year plan to cure everything that ails college softball. As I'm sure you can imagine this keeps me pretty busy, and occasionally causes me to leave out a word like "/or" when caught in the heat of the moment. I know, I know, it's a serious omission, but hey, we can't all be perfect, right?

In your case 50% would be an improvement but hey, don't let it stop you from posting

I won't. It invites discussion, and that's the important thing.

[Trophy Hunter]

You can beat semantics until your balls turn blue, but Soccer is still a valid example because they require registration and participation. ...

No, thank you - I'll stick with the facts. US Soccer is an example of how it should be done, not a justification for what ASA did.

If registration and participation are required, it is a non-issue because US Soccer is an inclusive federation of numerous organizations. The Youth Council includes AYSO, US Club Soccer (ECNL, NPL and others) and US Youth Soccer. If USA Softball was a similar autonomous NGB, it would allow the other sanctions (e.g. LL, PONY, PGF, TCS, etc.) to join as peers of ASA's rec and competitive programs. This would also provide a wider basis of financial support.

Even so, it appears US Soccer does NOT require registration to one of their member organizations in order to be identified. "Training Centers are open to the top players from any team, club or organization at no cost to the player. The purpose of the Training Center program is to identify the best players for the U.S. Soccer Youth National Team program."

Players are invited based on "recommendations provided by top local coaches:
• National Team scouts
• Academy clubs
• State Associations
• Local clubs
• Leagues
• College coaches"

(From http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/youth/pla ... ation.aspx)

As you already know, US Soccer also has several other ways for players to be identified (e.g. Dev Academy, ODP, id2, etc.). ASA is taking a step backward when they require players participate in a specific program or event.

Going to a camp to be identified is not participating in the US Soccer program. It's a way to find out if they want you to participate. It's the rough equivalent of going to a tryout. If you don't make the cut you aren't a participant.

I'm just suggesting ways ASA might try to justify this decision, not trying to validate the decision itself. You can slice and dice those suggestions up any way you want. it doesn't matter one iota to me. I think the best players should play. What interests me about this topic is how ASA will try to get away and/or validate their decision.

[Trophy Hunter]

How they did it before has little bearing on their legal obligation going forward, and most of the players selected last year were likely identified as "elite" prior to the advent of PGF.

I looked at USA baseball and soccer and they both have player identification and evaluation requirements well beyond what ASA has proposed. In both cases, if you don't participate in their events, you aren't going to be considered for their National teams.

End of story.

In softball you have a relative handful of teams that have gone rogue, renounced their affiliation with the NGB, taken actions detrimental to the health of the NGB, yet still want to participate in certain aspects of the NGB's program.

Meanwhile, the NGB has done nothing to restrict any player or club from participating in their sanctioned programs and selection process.

I'm pretty sure ASA is on sound legal ground here.

That isn't to say I agree with their decision.

That reply exactly reflects the mentality of ASA, and foretells why ASA will continue to struggle for many years. JNT, while important will primarily serve as yet another example of why ASA should be dismantled.

The people currently in charge at ASA end up wearing softball getting kicked from the Olympics, crap tanking a nationals system to favor profit taking by Johnson City and Midland, and now crap tanking the Jr National Team in a desperate attempt to remain somewhat relevant. Their approach to fastpitch remains that is a cost center that draws on their "profits" from slow pitch. They have no interest in fastpitch, unless it makes them money.

To cast what has happened at PGF as "a few teams going rogue" is hilarious.

TH, call us when ASA pulls their head outta their butts and fixes some of their internals. Until that happens, JNT is just another ASA step on their way to irrelevancy. For now most people are going to choose a national governing body that seems to understand the sport of competitive fastpich.

Ai, call us when you have a mind of your own.

[AlwaysImprove]

How they did it before has little bearing on their legal obligation going forward, and most of the players selected last year were likely identified as "elite" prior to the advent of PGF.

I looked at USA baseball and soccer and they both have player identification and evaluation requirements well beyond what ASA has proposed. In both cases, if you don't participate in their events, you aren't going to be considered for their National teams.

End of story.

In softball you have a relative handful of teams that have gone rogue, renounced their affiliation with the NGB, taken actions detrimental to the health of the NGB, yet still want to participate in certain aspects of the NGB's program.

Meanwhile, the NGB has done nothing to restrict any player or club from participating in their sanctioned programs and selection process.

I'm pretty sure ASA is on sound legal ground here.

That isn't to say I agree with their decision.

That reply exactly reflects the mentality of ASA, and foretells why ASA will continue to struggle for many years. JNT, while important will primarily serve as yet another example of why ASA should be dismantled.

The people currently in charge at ASA end up wearing softball getting kicked from the Olympics, crap tanking a nationals system to favor profit taking by Johnson City and Midland, and now crap tanking the Jr National Team in a desperate attempt to remain somewhat relevant. Their approach to fastpitch remains that is a cost center that draws on their "profits" from slow pitch. They have no interest in fastpitch, unless it makes them money.

To cast what has happened at PGF as "a few teams going rogue" is hilarious.

TH, call us when ASA pulls their head outta their butts and fixes some of their internals. Until that happens, JNT is just another ASA step on their way to irrelevancy. For now most people are going to choose a national governing body that seems to understand the sport of competitive fastpich.

Ai, call us when you have a mind of your own.

I do have a mind of my own. My own mind was in Huntington Beach enjoying beautiful weather, beautiful opening ceremony, easy to travel, reasonable length of tournament and the most competitive teams in fastpitch.

Meanwhile over at ASA land it was hunker down in the bunker under HOF stadium and come up with stupid strategies to remain relevant.

TH, use your own mind for a few minutes. Do you actually see this approach working?

[Sam]

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for PGF to form a Junior National Team with tryouts open to any female who is age-eligible. Then, issue a challenge to ASA's versions.....any time, any day, anywhere.....

[PDad]

Going to a camp to be identified is not participating in the US Soccer program. It's a way to find out if they want you to participate. It's the rough equivalent of going to a tryout. If you don't make the cut you aren't a participant.

I avoided 'participation' so semantics didn't distract from the more important aspects of the NGB acting impartially to identify the best players for the National Team program.

I'm just suggesting ways ASA might try to justify this decision, not trying to validate the decision itself. You can slice and dice those suggestions up any way you want. it doesn't matter one iota to me. I think the best players should play. What interests me about this topic is how ASA will try to get away and/or validate their decision.

Well, you certainly played the devil's advocate.

ASA may be able to keep their policy this year, but they're certainly losing credibility and respect in the process. Fortunately, this team will only be for 1 year with age-eligible players being born in 1994 or later. The USA Softball blurb about the JWNT being selected after 2013 Nats couldn't apply to this team because the 2013 ISF WS is in July. A new team will be selected after that with players born in 1996 or later for the 2014 Pan Am Champs and 2015 ISF WS.

We need to keep pressure on ASA to act impartially while fulfilling their duties as the NGB and select the best players possible for these teams.