Shaved bats in HS play ??

[ssarge]

The people that want the hot bats are the same middle aged fat white guys that want a toaster on the end of a stick so they can all hit a 300+yd drive. It's okay for them to have them in slowpitch (pitching distance 46', bunting not allowed so corners are not in danger due to playing up to cover a bunt) Not sure why we can't have slowpitch and fastpitch bats, we seem fine with having different barrel diameters between baseball and softball. If we have to continue to use the same bats for slowpitch and fastpitch and are going to allow the slowpitch market to drive innovation and change ( because they buy more bats ) that's fine by me as long as we start allowing bunting in slowpitch, and then when we kill off the first dozen 3rd basemen who come in to cover a bunt and get smacked with a line drive, then we can get some change initiated.

I'm having a hard time following the thread.

Are we talking about illegaly tampering with bats?

Are we talking about safety?

The LEGAL bats ARE less hot than three years ago.

The balls are less hot than 5 years ago.

I suppose we all believe what we believe relative to injuries. I DON'T think they are up, and the fact that my Bollinger rate ISN'T up kind of proves it, to my thinking.

Not to marginalize injuries - one can be a tragedy. But a 20mph speed limit on the highways would end traffic fatalities too. And also bring commerce to its knees - there has to be a happy medium. I think we are about at that happy medium in the current state of FP (relative to bat performance).

The rubber moving to 43 in HS will be a good thing, too, I think.

I renew my statement that ILLEGAL bats might BE too hot. And should be sanctioned harshly.

Regards,

Scott

[Tumblebug]

Yet, it is being done successfully elsewhere. But you need to get your head out of the trees. I don't know how many times I've repeated this. With today's technology, there should be a way to produce a composite wood bat.

You say that like nobody has tried it. Your right, it is being done but the results are not particularly good nor is it economically sound. H&B had been working on an economically viable engineering solution for 10 years when I worked there twenty years ago in 1989. The project is more than 30 years old. It's easier too say it can be done than it is to actually make it work in a real production model within a viable economic model. No matter how many times you say it, the raw materials have to be processed many times over to build the blank to turn a bat. The layers still have to be hard wood to possess good mechanical properties. This is not a trivial engineering project.

Wood is wood! Wouldn't a composite wood bat be exactly that.....composite material? and not wood.

Composite: A multiphase material formed from a combination of materials which differ in composition or form, remain bonded together, and retain their identities and properties. Composites maintain an interface between components and act in concert to provide improved specific or synergistic characteristics not obtainable by any of the original components acting alone. Composites include: (1) fibrous (composed of fibers, and usually in a matrix), (2) laminar (layers of materials), (3) particulate (composed of particles or flakes, usually in a matrix), and (4) hybrid (combinations of any of the above).

[Gone in 2.6]

The people that want the hot bats are the same middle aged fat white guys that want a toaster on the end of a stick so they can all hit a 300+yd drive. It's okay for them to have them in slowpitch (pitching distance 46', bunting not allowed so corners are not in danger due to playing up to cover a bunt) Not sure why we can't have slowpitch and fastpitch bats, we seem fine with having different barrel diameters between baseball and softball. If we have to continue to use the same bats for slowpitch and fastpitch and are going to allow the slowpitch market to drive innovation and change ( because they buy more bats ) that's fine by me as long as we start allowing bunting in slowpitch, and then when we kill off the first dozen 3rd basemen who come in to cover a bunt and get smacked with a line drive, then we can get some change initiated.

I'm having a hard time following the thread.

Are we talking about illegaly tampering with bats?

Are we talking about safety?

The LEGAL bats ARE less hot than three years ago.

The balls are less hot than 5 years ago.

I suppose we all believe what we believe relative to injuries. I DON'T think they are up, and the fact that my Bollinger rate ISN'T up kind of proves it, to my thinking.

Not to marginalize injuries - one can be a tragedy. But a 20mph speed limit on the highways would end traffic fatalities too. And also bring commerce to its knees - there has to be a happy medium. I think we are about at that happy medium in the current state of FP (relative to bat performance).

The rubber moving to 43 in HS will be a good thing, too, I think.

I renew my statement that ILLEGAL bats might BE too hot. And should be sanctioned harshly.

Regards,

Scott

Thank you Scott. Unfortunately this point continues to be lost on some no matter how many times it's restated.

[Tumblebug]

The people that want the hot bats are the same middle aged fat white guys that want a toaster on the end of a stick so they can all hit a 300+yd drive. It's okay for them to have them in slowpitch (pitching distance 46', bunting not allowed so corners are not in danger due to playing up to cover a bunt) Not sure why we can't have slowpitch and fastpitch bats, we seem fine with having different barrel diameters between baseball and softball. If we have to continue to use the same bats for slowpitch and fastpitch and are going to allow the slowpitch market to drive innovation and change ( because they buy more bats ) that's fine by me as long as we start allowing bunting in slowpitch, and then when we kill off the first dozen 3rd basemen who come in to cover a bunt and get smacked with a line drive, then we can get some change initiated.

I'm having a hard time following the thread.

Are we talking about illegaly tampering with bats?

Are we talking about safety?

The LEGAL bats ARE less hot than three years ago.

The balls are less hot than 5 years ago.

I suppose we all believe what we believe relative to injuries. I DON'T think they are up, and the fact that my Bollinger rate ISN'T up kind of proves it, to my thinking.

Not to marginalize injuries - one can be a tragedy. But a 20mph speed limit on the highways would end traffic fatalities too. And also bring commerce to its knees - there has to be a happy medium. I think we are about at that happy medium in the current state of FP (relative to bat performance).

The rubber moving to 43 in HS will be a good thing, too, I think.

I renew my statement that ILLEGAL bats might BE too hot. And should be sanctioned harshly.

Regards,

Scott

I agree on the sanctions being harsh. But the problem isn't that the illegal bats are too hot but that they are hotter than expected. Diamond sports are an "at risk" activity. Which means that you accept liability for the events that happen in competition willfully. That status is based on complete disclosure of all of the risks involved and the participants option to accept the risks and continue to play or to reject the added risk and choose not to play. If a bat is altered and that fact is not disclosed than the user puts the opposition at an undisclosed peril based on a unknown level of danger. That deserves not only competition sanctions, it deserves legal consequences.

[93players]

ASA Gold NAtionals xray'd all bats and threw out about 1/3 of them. Mailed them home. Of course, some of them were the stealths and CF3 under the old standard. But some were clearly shaved.

[absdad]

ASA Gold NAtionals xray'd all bats and threw out about 1/3 of them. Mailed them home. Of course, some of them were the stealths and CF3 under the old standard. But some were clearly shaved.

I like that. But they should have went step further, and sent the bats home with the girls. The bats didn't cheat, the players did. Proving that a coach did... that might be tough. But lose enough of your players at a critical time, and the coaches might start doing their own policing.

[3Bsnag]

Tougher sanctions would also see a halt to 3rd party or resale bats. If my kid is on the hook for 2 years period, no way I'm buying from a private party. I can assure you that well shaved bats, or even garage diy's, can not be detected by inspection, especially from parents.

Edited to add: Someone on this board will like this, there is one bat that is known to be the hardest to "break" into.

[dodgerblue]

I can assure you that well shaved bats, or even garage diy's, can not be detected by inspection, especially from parents

Funny you say this because a year ago when DD was in 14U she used a team mates bat for a showcase and hit the crap out of the ball all weekend. After the 1st day she told me that the bat was -8 but felt like her -10 and the sound and feel were completely different from hers. So
she noticed right away that the bat was different and when the mom of her teammate found out she was using her DD bat she told her DD to put it away because her teammate was going to break it. How the hell will it break if it was legit? I spoke to a friend of mine that works with sporting goods and I asked him for a bat and he replied rolled and shaved and I said not for me for my DD and he said rolled and shaved again and told me most bats that he is selling parents these days are doing this he said more than you would possibly think. I think it's sad that parents have to result in cheating just for their kid can have an edge above their teammates I would just hate to be the one that injures a girl and a lawsuit is filed for the parents negligence. I'm glad my DD doesn't pitch.

[Sam]

I don't know how many of you were around when we had wood bats, but we didn't break them very often.....and there were not alternatives.....there were plenty of trees around....and the number of wood bats and competition drove the prices down.

REPORTED injuries may be down....solely because of the lack of knowledge on how to report an injury....or that 95% of them don't result in a trip to the hospital. It doesn't mean pitchers aren't getting pummeled....I saw another one last week....I've seen 6 pitchers hit with batted balls in an elite HS league in a total of 20 games. Three of them had to leave the game.

ASA has the power to reduce the standard down to that of a comparable wood bat. Problem solved.

Fiction in red . . .

...as Tumblebug reverts to the old "liar, liar....pants on fire" argument. Please provide proof that I am lying.

[absdad]

I can assure you that well shaved bats, or even garage diy's, can not be detected by inspection, especially from parents

Funny you say this because a year ago when DD was in 14U she used a team mates bat for a showcase and hit the crap out of the ball all weekend. After the 1st day she told me that the bat was -8 but felt like her -10 and the sound and feel were completely different from hers. So
she noticed right away that the bat was different and when the mom of her teammate found out she was using her DD bat she told her DD to put it away because her teammate was going to break it. How the hell will it break if it was legit? I spoke to a friend of mine that works with sporting goods and I asked him for a bat and he replied rolled and shaved and I said not for me for my DD and he said rolled and shaved again and told me most bats that he is selling parents these days are doing this he said more than you would possibly think. I think it's sad that parents have to result in cheating just for their kid can have an edge above their teammates I would just hate to be the one that injures a girl and a lawsuit is filed for the parents negligence. I'm glad my DD doesn't pitch.

I don't allow my DD to loan her Phenix out to other players on her team. Don't want it breaking on someone else's AB, or getting thrown around in the dugout. Doesn't mean anything "shady" has been done to it, it just means that I paid good money for it and want to make sure it's treated well. I don't let my neighbor use my car, but that doesn't mean that it's been modded in violation of EPA regulations for more performance...

Could it *possibly* mean the one example you give, is an indication of modification?? Possibly but unlikely. Many girls don't let other girls use their bats. Superstition, protective parents, selfish, whatever... happens all the time. Were both bats the same make, model, and length? Doubtful, so I'm pretty positive they'd feel different. I'm sure you know a RT doesn't "feel" like a CF4, etc, etc.

As for your shop example, I'd let every manufacturer that they carry, let them know what they are doing. Places like that need to be shut down. At the least, given a bad name.