Speed of pitchers

[AM Softball]

On the Juice

I suggest that you attend a pitching lesson with one or both of your 12U pitchers to see what is going on. It is true that most upper level pitchers throw very few fastballs. But that does not mean a fastball is a bad pitch at 12U. At 12U good mechanics is the important point. Throwing a fastball with good mechanics is better than throwing a curve ball (or what they call a "curve ball") with poor mechanics. Bad habits are hard to break.

We have all seen pitchers who threw "6 pitches" that all looked about the same--drop = low fastball, rise = high fastball, curve = outside fastball etc.. At 12U they should be focusing on fewer pitches with good mechanics to build a foundation for the future. Many 12U pitchers have done very well throwing fastballs, change ups and peal drops. Once the mechanics of the basic pitches are mastered, you can move on to turnover drops, curves, and rises. Good mechanics makes it possible to throw these high movement pitches. 12U is the time to build the foundation.

AMEN

[artomatic]

Lastly, someone said all pitching coaches know the kids get bored so they teach them a bunch of pitches?? HUH?? This is NOT true and even college pitchers work on mechanics in the fall.

It wasn't someone, it was Sam...
Call Sam what you want, grouchy, pompous, that old man on your block when you were a kid that always yelled, "DAMMIT YOU KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN!", etc., but he knows his shite, he's been there, done that, he came up with that "a dog eats his own feces" post-ender, plus he paid my kid a compliment earlier this week. So you should listen when he talks...

[AM Softball]

Lastly, someone said all pitching coaches know the kids get bored so they teach them a bunch of pitches?? HUH?? This is NOT true and even college pitchers work on mechanics in the fall.

It wasn't someone, it was Sam...
Call Sam what you want, grouchy, pompous, that old man on your block when you were a kid that always yelled, "DAMMIT YOU KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN!", etc., but he knows his shite, he's been there, done that, he came up with that "a dog eats his own feces" post-ender, plus he paid my kid a compliment earlier this week. So you should listen when he talks...

Thanks, I'll remember that.

[Sam]

Please help me out!!

I have two 12u players that have the same pitching coach, both have an arsenal of eight pitches. Both have control problems and if a strike is needed the fastball is not an option. One of the parents told me that the pitching coach told them that in college the pitchers rarely throw fastballs so it is more important that the pitchers work on their spins.

Maybe I'm behind the times or old school or just uneducated in this area, but shouldn't a pitcher master the proper form and mechanics before adding more pitches? Secondly, how could a one hour lesson with a 10, 11 or 12 year old cover so much? Lastly, if a young pitcher only throws junk at such an early age what effect does that have on the kids arm?
Please share you thoughts.

Just another perspective.

1. Some college pitchers DO throw fastballs and location can be just as effective as movement if you hit your spots or hit the batters weak spots. Fastballs can also set up other pitches so I think this depends on who you ask. I do know pitcers that do not throw fastballs as well; it depends on the coach.
2. 10U/12U growing girls should learn proper FASTBALL mechanics before they learn pitches. You can teach a change because the mechanics are fairly similar but they need the good mechanics FIRST: balance, leg drive, wrist snaps, etc. If they don't have this, the other pitches will be difficult to teach
3. A pitcher needs a good fastball, good change (or off speed pitch) and a few mastered pitches. Then add the others if they can handle them. MOST pitchers are not complete. Most are good rise ball pitchers but struggle with the drop and visa versa. I know Olympic players that do not throw 6 pitches well. They throw what they are successful with and use the others to set up those pitches they throw well. Cat and Lisa are two pitchers that I think are complete and this is why they are so good.

My experience: these coaches teach too much too soon and young players need repetition doing it correctly. If you start teaching them these other pitches before they can handle it, they get messed up. (for example you teach the turnover drop and now they turn their fastballs over, not realizing they are doing it)

We cannot teach 10-12 year olds like they are college pitchers because physically, mentally and emotionally, they are not the same. I believe this is the problem many advanced instructors have. They teach them all these pitches and then you have to go back, and reteach the stuff they have already mastered, which can mess them up even more.

Also, a true way to tell if the pitch REALLY works is the spin yet coaches don't take the time to teach the correct spin. I cannot tell you how many girls say they have a curve but the ball does't even spin right. If the ball doesn't spin right, it is impossible to make it move right, therefore, their so called curve is really an outside fastball, not a curve.

Lastly, someone said all pitching coaches know the kids get bored so they teach them a bunch of pitches?? HUH?? This is NOT true and even college pitchers work on mechanics in the fall. The CSUF coach told me she only let her pitchers throw fast and change in the fall until they could master hitting their spots so that is a TOP pitcher (played at UCLA) and coach that is saying this. They should not get bored when mastering important skills. If a child is bored with multiplication facts and doesn't learn them, then how can they do the math when it becomes harder? There MUST be a good foundation.

Just my opinion!

Actually, AM, you should try reading my post...you might learn something..this is actually what I wrote:

"A smart pitching coach will teach younger pitchers different pitches in order to keep their minds on what they are doing, to make it more fun for the young lady, and to differ the movement of the arm/wrist/shoulder. If a 10 year old comes to lessons to throw 85 fastballs and 15 changeups...she gets bored...who wouldn't? But if she throws 40 FB, 15 changeups, and 8 pitches each of 6 different pitches....it keeps her attention. The pitching coach knows full well that the kid isn't going to throw these pitches in a game....and you get to find out which ones she throws well. Nobody is dumb enough to call 8 different pitches in a game....are they???"

Now you may equate the focus of a nine or 10 year old with that of a 21 year old....I choose not to....nor do I equate smart pitching coaches with all pitching coaches...my experience tells me that 10 year olds want to have fun....a 21 year old, whose paid education depends on how well she performs on a ball field, has a different level of focus and different goals. I don't remember the last time CSUF went to the WCWS....

[Sam]

I don't remember the last time CSUF went to the WCWS....

They won it in 1986

Exactly....I was drinking a lot in 1986....with Skarp.

[Clean_up]

Quote "We have all seen pitchers who threw "6 pitches" that all looked about the same--drop = low fastball, rise = high fastball, curve = outside fastball etc.. At 12U they should be focusing on fewer pitches with good mechanics to build a foundation for the future. Many 12U pitchers have done very well throwing fastballs, change ups and peal drops. Once the mechanics of the basic pitches are mastered, you can move on to turnover drops, curves, and rises. Good mechanics makes it possible to throw these high movement pitches. 12U is the time to build the foundation."" End Quote

I guess everyone has a different opinion, DD's second pitching coach 8U - 10U was Doug Finch, who has his own philosophy which differs from above. He taught DD FB, CU, Drop first year as older 8U, we then added Curve Ball first year 10U, then added Screw Ball like a month after that (they have the same basic motion, one palm up the other palm down, no twisting of the arm) so that by the end of 10U she had 5 pitches working for two years. Once she hit 50 mph end of 10U season she was taught the rise. Then he closed his place and we changed coaches, who was by the way surprised to see that she knew the releases and how to throw all six pitches. Our new coach continues to work on the fundamentals, reinforcing proper technique and spin and yes, he also works all six pitches. But I do think you have a point in mastery, DD struggles with the peal drop at times and getting the proper spin on the rise but these both are improving with practice...

So, does that mean she really only has four pitches if she hasn't mastered the other two yet? At 12U, IMNTBHO, a pitcher has as many pitches as her pitching coach is teaching her and that her TB Coach is calling for in games.

[anonlooker]

Since Skarp has gone MIA, and you two are known for your spirited debates, would you care to shed some light on his whereabouts?

Interesting you would bring that up.

Just today the FBI, Scotland Yard, Interpol, Homeland Security, and John McCain all came by my office (not at the same time, mind you) and asked me the same thing:

"What is the nature of the Sam / Skarp relationship?"

I assured them spirited nature of the debates was all in jest, and that Sam would never hurt a fly (unless his CF misplayed it!)

They were skeptical.

[ballguy]

For all the pitchers that have 6,7, or 8 pitches---how does the catcher handle that? She only has 5 fingers for signs. If she is not calling her game does coach have 8 fingers?

[Sam]

For all the pitchers that have 6,7, or 8 pitches---how does the catcher handle that? She only has 5 fingers for signs. If she is not calling her game does coach have 8 fingers?

I always wore sandals and my catchers would also. I can give up to 21 signs...my catchers could only give 20...

[Vegasdad]

For all the pitchers that have 6,7, or 8 pitches---how does the catcher handle that? She only has 5 fingers for signs. If she is not calling her game does coach have 8 fingers?

I always wore sandals and my catchers would also. I can give up to 21 signs...my catchers could only give 20...

I didn't realize you coached for TNL