ASA being sued

[Sam]

Not only will you get more PITCHER PARENTS, you will get more pitchers. A lot more pitchers.

I understand limiting innings pitched per day, but what about practice time? That has to figure significantly into overuse and repetitive motion injuries. Can you regulate that?

If a kid can only pitch 7 innings per day, and you have tournaments with 5 loser bracket games in a day, teams will have to carry 5 or more pitchers. That's probably about double what most teams have now. The demand for pitchers, already at a premium, will skyrocket.

In order to become an effective pitcher, with less game time available, kids will have to train even more than they already do.

Good pitching instructors will be swamped. The door will be open for marginally qualified and unscrupulous instructors, leading to poor training, poor mechanics, and increased incidence of injury.

You would also increase the risk of injury from batted balls. Untrained pitchers will make more mistakes, leading to more come backers, etc.

Additionally, ASA can mandate anything they want, but in SoCal and other parts of the country, there is very little ASA ball being played.

Finally, I find it hard to believe LL pitchers don't get injuries. Who limits practice time, or innings during non-LL play? Don't these kids also play travel ball? Does LL govern every tournamant in the country? Did Henry Owen get as good as he is pitching one game twice a week, and practicing for 20 minutes a day? I don't know, but I'm inclined to doubt it.

Limiting innings might be a start, but it's not a complete solution. And doesn't even begin to address what the college coaches are looking for from prospective pitchers. As long as that carrot is being dangled, and only the best are getting full rides, kids (and their parents) will continue to overdo it. And under this plan, there will be a lot more of them.

Feel free to let me know what I'm missing here.

Our young boy pitchers don't practice incessantly, do they? Why does it work for them, but not our little darlings?

There would be no increase in demand for pitchers, there would be a reduction in the the amount of teams....like baseball.

In the end, who gives a shit what a college coach wants, but I'm betting that they would like to see healthy pitchers throwing against high level hitters. That is exactly what would happen.

[Joe]

There would be no increase in demand for pitchers, there would be a reduction in the the amount of teams....like baseball.

Can we see your research on such a statement?

[Sam]

There would be no increase in demand for pitchers, there would be a reduction in the the amount of teams....like baseball.

Can we see your research on such a statement?

Common sense. There is a relatively stable number of pitchers. So lets say there are 100 12U travel teams in Southern California with 3 pitchers on each team. That is 300 pitchers. If max pitch limits were initiated and teams needed to carry 6 pitchers on their team in order to make it through a weekend tournament, that would reduce the number of teams to 50 and likely send 400+ players back to rec ball. The rec ball teams could get away with only 2-3 pitchers because they only play one or two games per week. The all-star teams could carry 6 pitchers.

[jonriv]

I think the suit is pointless and another attempt of people to try to assign blame instead of looking in the mirror. Where were the parents when she pitched all these games? The unfortunate thing of such lawsuits is that we all wind up paying for it one way or another.

Sam I would not use LL rules and regulations or comparisons to baseball. LL has shown that it is trying make softball "baseball for girls" and truly does not understand the sport- their rules were merely carryover from baseball. Underhanded throwing does not put the same strain as overhand(that does not mean that overuse cannot still happen, there are limits to everything)

"Overuse" seems to be a rather recent thing in the softball world. In the past it seemed most college teams got through their seasons using basically one pitcher. At the junior levels I have noticed that the move from 40 to 43ft has changed pitching styles- from almost all fastball to a mixture of breaking ball and off-speed stuff. Perhaps this is more wearing on the arm? I don't know-anyone out there with some real info or data?

[MTR]

Feel free to let me know what I'm missing here.

Only that maybe Ralph Nader was right. You do away with the almighty carrot and most of the problematic issues of many youth sports would vanish before our eyes.

[jonriv]

Only that maybe Ralph Nader was right. You do away with the almighty carrot and most of the problematic issues of many youth sports would vanish before our eyes.

As much as it hurts to say it(agreeing with Ralph Nader) You may be right. Especially when it seems most parents do not realize how elusive the "carrot" really is and that sometimes even when you reach it, it may already be rotten.

[ontheblack]

Underhanded throwing does not put the same strain as overhand(that does not mean that overuse cannot still happen, there are limits to everything)

"Overuse" seems to be a rather recent thing in the softball world. In the past it seemed most college teams got through their seasons using basically one pitcher. At the junior levels I have noticed that the move from 40 to 43ft has changed pitching styles- from almost all fastball to a mixture of breaking ball and off-speed stuff. Perhaps this is more wearing on the arm? I don't know-anyone out there with some real info or data?

There is a lot of data out there, but it is ignored by those in the softball community because it means exactly what Sam is saying - either have more pitchers or fewer teams;
Here you go:
http://www.momentummedia.com/articles/cm/cm1309/bbtulane.htm
http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/34/4/597.abstract
http://www.jospt.org/members/getfile.asp?id=778 -This one is a pdf

[jonriv]

Do a lot of teams still operate with 1 or 2 pitchers any more? Especially at the older levels? I remember at 12u it was not uncommon for 1 pitcher to pitch a whole tournament, now it seems most utilize at least three. I think Sam's point is well taken(OMG I am agreeing with Sam and Ralph Nader in the same post) Perhaps not the degree Sam suggests, but maybe there should be some limitations put in place on pitchers- since obviously many teams are not going with 4 pitchers.

[SoftballSoccerDad]

I don't know that this is necessarily a shakedown attempt by the family. It could be this parent's way of putting a spotlight on what he feels is an issue that should get more discussion.

My DD is only 8 and thankfully, she's pretty reasonable. As she gets older and gets into more competitive situations, I will stick to my guns regarding her repetitions. If her team is going to play 7-8 games on a weekend, then I need to do the math and shorten her workouts accordingly. During tryouts, she's not going to join a team that has only one other pitcher.

As much as I don't mind the fact that she may become a youth star, I appreciate the fact that I have been able to learn from more experienced parents about the long-term effects of overusing these flexible, seemingly indestructible young arms. Because we already have a plan, her future coaches will be able to decide whether it's worth having her on the team given that Daddy's going to be a hawk when it comes to her workload in the circle.

Once she's 18 and goes to college, if she's still playing, then it'll be up to her and her coach to decide, but until that time, as her parent, I do have a say as to whether or not she's being overused. Parents have both the right and the responsibility to look out for their young athletes.

[anonlooker]

There would be no increase in demand for pitchers, there would be a reduction in the the amount of teams....like baseball.

Can we see your research on such a statement?

Common sense. There is a relatively stable number of pitchers. So lets say there are 100 12U travel teams in Southern California with 3 pitchers on each team. That is 300 pitchers. If max pitch limits were initiated and teams needed to carry 6 pitchers on their team in order to make it through a weekend tournament, that would reduce the number of teams to 50 and likely send 400+ players back to rec ball. The rec ball teams could get away with only 2-3 pitchers because they only play one or two games per week. The all-star teams could carry 6 pitchers.

Common sense? Fifty travel teams will simply vanish, and all the kids on them, 400 travel ball players, will go back to playing rec ball? Yep, okay.