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Verbals

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by anonlooker » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:24 pm

ontheblack wrote:Exceptions, not the rule.


LOL. There is no rule.

Players can and do decommit, and then find another school. I have no idea how many, but I'm sure there were a lot more than 3 last year.

To say "If you are a stud prep softball player, that isn't going to happen" is 100% wrong.

Stud prep softball players are no different than football or basketball players. They can decommit whenever they want prior to signing an NLI, and there will be plenty of schools to welcome them.

Further, once there, if the kid decides she made a bad decision, she can leave and go to another school. Kids transfer every year. Sure, there may be some restrictions with respect to softball eligibility, but there is nothing keeping a kid at a school she doesn't want to be at.
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by MTR » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:13 am

Blind Squirrel wrote:Whether or not a verbal is treated as a commitment or not by all involved parties is easy to assess: Go to one of the sites that lists verbals for a few years back and check to see if they appearred on the college teams roster after they graduated HS. I did this for the first 10 girls on a list. All 10 were at the college they verballed to. That is objective, indisputable, undeniable reality. Try a bigger sample. I'm sure there are kids that go elsewhere but I'd bet that 90%+ go to where they verbal to. Which obviously proves that whether the NCAA acknowledges verbals or not is completely irrelevant. There is a reality outside of rule books.


Of course, the numbers look good, no one challenges the system in softball.

People who say parents/kids have leverage but choose not to use it simply don't understand the softball recruiting process, at least as of a few years ago. Coaches simply can't/won't wait forever because they know that the longer they wait, the fewer comparably skilled players will be available if the kid they're waiting to hear from goes elsewhere.


So you are saying coaches will sign sub-par players for the sake of expediency? If so, why would you want to play for that coach? IMO, the coaches encourage this line of thought because it make their life easier by making you think they have you by the short hairs.

You would think in a sport in which it isn't uncommon for scholarships to be split that a potential recruit would not use the verbal to scout schools in the same conference as the one to which she "verballed" to maybe get the pot sweetened a little bit. Of course, this is a predicated on the fact that the player in question is actually as good as the parents believe and deserves an athletic scholarship. Otherwise, I can see why one would jump early and hang on.

People talk about the value of one's "word". If your unemployed, bankrupt neighbor offered you a million dollars to cut their lawn, would you do it expecting to get paid even though you know they do not have it? What is the difference between a neighbor promising you something they do not have to give? Because if you believe a coach is committing to a scholarship by engaging in a verbal, s/he is indeed offering something s/he does not have to offer.

Those in other sports know how to use the system. Softball people allow the system to use you and the coaches know it which is why they will not take any action to stop it.

This is why you are seeing the issue rising with the allowance of a 4-year scholarship. This passed before the coaches realized and could get to their AD about all the "problems" it would cause. A decent coach wouldn't care, but others are afraid this would limit potential transfers. It also means that "if" (and that is a big word people tend to be overlooking) a player is given a 4 year scholarship, the coach loses the ability to replace her if a better player comes along without burning another scholarship.

One more point on people in whatever part of the country honoring their word. What is the divorce rate where you live and how many are involved in the softball system?
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by ontheblack » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:32 am

Stud prep softball players are no different than football or basketball players. They can decommit whenever they want prior to signing an NLI, and there will be plenty of schools to welcome them.


How many top 20 softball programs do you think still have scholarships available for 2013 that they havent verbally committed to existing or incoming players?
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by anonlooker » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:05 am

ontheblack wrote:
Stud prep softball players are no different than football or basketball players. They can decommit whenever they want prior to signing an NLI, and there will be plenty of schools to welcome them.


How many top 20 softball programs do you think still have scholarships available for 2013 that they havent verbally committed to existing or incoming players?


I don't know for a fact, and neither do you. I do know that word in the TB community has it that all the top programs are out of money for '13s. That so-called fact is so pervasive that everyone "knows" it. Even me. :lol:

But if the top programs are 2 or 3 years out in recruiting, how did UCLA land McDuffie on a moments notice? Word was that they had no money for 2012s (this was in 2011 mind you) and suddenly they land arguably the top recruit of her class. What do you think they gave her, in addition to an In and Out Burger? :lol:

Running out of money 2 or 3 years in advance is the equivalent of going to Vegas for the weekend and losing your bankroll in the first hour there. These coaches didn't get to Top 20 programs by acting like drunk college kids. They are experts at what they do and they play their hands extremely well. When the next blue chip suddenly becomes available in the summer of her junior year that many of those top 20 "out of money" programs will be making offers.
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by AlwaysImprove » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:24 am

UC Davis to Cal was the one I knew of as well. There were coaching changes at UC Davis, but I do not believe that had anything to do with the transfer.

These types if decommits have just started happening. My opinion UCLA and Cal were smart to find some money and grab some great talent. If they were using that as a strategy, they are looking smart. Unfortunately, I do not think that is the case.

There is a huge gap from a few decommits happening and pretending verbals are not real. You start walking around pretending verbals are not real, you are going to be a disappointed.

It could be the start of something that could help recruits get back some badly needed space. Forcing these girls to commit at by the start of their junior year is a joke.
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by jonriv » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:26 am

Should the NCAA prohibit verbals. or at least put more restrictions on them?
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by AlwaysImprove » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:37 am

MTR wrote:
Blind Squirrel wrote:Whether or not a verbal is treated as a commitment or not by all involved parties is easy to assess: Go to one of the sites that lists verbals for a few years back and check to see if they appearred on the college teams roster after they graduated HS. I did this for the first 10 girls on a list. All 10 were at the college they verballed to. That is objective, indisputable, undeniable reality. Try a bigger sample. I'm sure there are kids that go elsewhere but I'd bet that 90%+ go to where they verbal to. Which obviously proves that whether the NCAA acknowledges verbals or not is completely irrelevant. There is a reality outside of rule books.


Of course, the numbers look good, no one challenges the system in softball.

:
Those in other sports know how to use the system. Softball people allow the system to use you and the coaches know it which is why they will not take any action to stop it.
:

What people in what other sports are so great at using the system? You have maybe 25 decommits in football. Maybe 10 in basketball. Baseball, Soccer, Lacrosse, Hockey, the rest of the sports, all run the same as softball.

Even in football. You think 3 star recruits actually get to have some big negotiating session with lots of commits and decommits until they get exactly what they are looking for? Only 5 star and a very few highly desired 4 stars get anything close to what you envision. They estimate about 5042 football scholarships per year. That mean about 5017 players will go through the system in about the same fashion as a softball player.

Just football happens later as more boys are still growing at that age.
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by NORCALGOLD » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:42 am

MTR and anyone else that has posted the horribleness of verbals have never addressed the best part of a verbal. The fact that a kid can lock up and pay for their college education in the start of their Jr. Year of High School.
Show me the downside to that. Two years before they graduate high school I had no worries about how to pay or where my DD's were going to go to get their college education. What a relief that was. The fact they get to play softball is secondary. Somebody has offered to pay for my kid's schooling and I am supposed to think that is a bad thing. What are you on Crack!
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by jonriv » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:53 am

NORCALGOLD wrote:MTR and anyone else that has posted the horribleness of verbals have never addressed the best part of a verbal. The fact that a kid can lock up and pay for their college education in the start of their Jr. Year of High School.
Show me the downside to that. Two years before they graduate high school I had no worries about how to pay or where my DD's were going to go to get their college education. What a relief that was. The fact they get to play softball is secondary. Somebody has offered to pay for my kid's schooling and I am supposed to think that is a bad thing. What are you on Crack!



That is certainly the upside-and also seems to be the experience of the fast majority

I think the concern is that these will continue to happen at younger ages and that players might be left with either less than they were promised or nothing at all come NLI time. Also- many players may make choices that are not in their best interest, but because of the external pressures caused by others committing early. Is a 13-16 year old capable of making that kind of life decision? Are the parents know enough at that point to give the proper guidance? I do not think there are any easy answers, nor do I think there is a one size fits all solution.
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by watchtonsofsoftball » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:38 pm

Norcalgold....nice post.
My dd verballed the start of her sophomore year and we got it all out of the way. We looked at everything and decided as a family (my dd had final say). As her dad I helped her find all the answers to her questions and we figured it out. It wasn't a 15 year old deciding on her own. We didnt have some long painful journey to get a scholarship and I cant tell you how nice that was. Parents around us flipping out and stressing out, spending money on camps, traveling to all the recruit camps, etc, etc. We did several camps her freshman year , sent letters out for 1 whole year and that was it! So to get that verbal and for it to be honored was great. We knew well ahead of time where she was going and knew we werent going to be paying for her education. I now use my money to travel and see her play. Maybe this isn't the norm but IMO the verbal is a stress reliever. And I stick by my original post after jon riv that anyone who says a verbal has no merit, doesnt know what they are talking about. OH and the best part was my daughter had over 2 years to train and get ready for college and focus more on things outside of softball. I realize what MTR is saying but we didnt feel like the college coach had power on us. They made us an offer and gave us a timeline, WE decided if we wanted that or not. They didnt strong arm us or make us panic. In fact we knew the coach wanted to land her. To me it doesnt matter who wanted each other more or who felt they had more leverage on the other. It was about us and our family situation.
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