Information about Premier Fastpitch Girls Softball

[wadeintothem]

Again I will state that they are top because they play against top teams. Just because that location is, for now ASA, does not make that the deciding factor. If you took the teams from Georgia this year, for example, and put them in Florida playing for another sanctioning body would you then say that those teams are now not the best in the country?
ASA benefits from the teams choosing to play for their national championship, not the other way around. That is partly what has led to these problems. ASA does not give a crap about the teams, they think it is all about themselves. They have become bigger than the game. The colleges will go where the players are. They don't care what alphabet soup is preceding the tournament name.
And on that we will just have to agree to disagree since I don't think either of us will convince the other.

I agree with you in part; because it is definately the players and teams. I just disagree that if those teams leave ASA, that they are irreplacable by new top teams wanting to compete in the top national sanctioning org. I believe they will simply be replaced and players will go elsewhere. I watched that happen to a team this year. We can agree to disagree though! Fair enough!

[wadeintothem]

From Spysoftball, a short list of college girls that were at Nationals:

College Pitchers and Players at Gold (sophomores who graduated 2008)



Hillary Bach, Arizona State, P for Corona Angels

Jessica Spigner, Tennessee, P for Georgia Elite

Monica Perry, unknown, 2008 graduate, P Georgia Elite

Shelby Allison, Bevill State CC, IF for Alabama Crusaders

Catherine Douglas, UAB, IF for Alabama Crusaders

Mandy Lowman, UAB, C for Alabama Crusaders

Tiffany Smith, UAB, OF for Alabama Crusaders

Katelyn Boyd, Arizona State, IF for Arizona Hot Shots

Kate Kuzma, Georgia Tech, C for Atlanta Vipers Seamon

Amber Hamilton, USC Upstate, P for Atlanta Vipers Seamon

Tyler Miller, Florida Tech, IF for Atlanta Vipers Seamon

Tiffany Phillips, Georgia Perimeter CC, IF for Atlanta Vipers Seamon

Sara Sandoval, Mesa CC, OF for Desert Thunder

Vangie Galindo, Maryland, OF for CA Cruisers

Justeen Maeva, released, IF for CA Cruisers

Michelle Takeda, Maryland, OF for CA Cruisers

Christina Zambrana, Arizona State, IF for CA Cruisers

Jennifer Fenton, Alabama, OF for East Cobb Bullets

Ashley Pauly, University of Georgia, SS for East Cobb Bullets

Jessica Sinclair, Georgia Tech, OF for East Cobb Bullets

Megan Denio, Long Beach State, OF for Explosion

Michelle Tait, Pacific/TBD, P for Explosion

Amanda Chidester, Michigan, IF/C for Finesse

Brogan Darwin, Central Michigan, C for Finesse

Lauren Histed, Ohio U,IF for Finesse

Shelby Burchell, Tennessee, C/IF for Fury Fastpitch

Amy Campbell, East Tennessee State,C/IF for Fury

Kamri Chester, Univ of Memphis, OF for Fury

Lisaira Daniels, Georgia, OF for Georgia Elite

Jessica Coan, Georgia Tech, P for Georgia Knockouts

Michelle Moultrie, Univ of Florida, OF for Gold Coast Hurricanes

Amy Gonzalez, Samford Univ, OF for Houston Power

Erin Arevalo, Georgia, P for Southern Force

Chanda Bell, Kentucky, P for Indy Dreams

Kristen Ohaver, Univ Southern Indiana, IF for Indy Dreams

Emily Sullivan, St Francis, IF for Indy Dreams

Alexandra Casey, William Carey Univ, OF for Louisiana Patriots

Lauren Capello, LSU, IF/C for LA Patriots

Sydney Wilson, Baylor, IF for LA Patriots

Lindsay Barrett, Wright State, C, Miami Valley Express

Carly Ivan, Urbana Univ, OF for Miami Valley Express

Jessica Simpson, Miami of Ohio, P for Miami Valley Express

Desiree Smith, Univ of Mary, C/SS for MN Irish

Erin Tjornhom, Iowa Lakes CC, OF for MN Irish

Kathryn Ayers, Lipscomb Univ, P for Nashville Cruisers

Jenny Bain, UT Martin, IF for Nashville Cruisers

Amy Buwalda, Motlow State CC, IF for Nashville Cruisers

Elizabeth Harris, Covenant College, C for Nashville Cruisers

Hannah Irwin, Belmont Univ, C for Nashville Cruisers

Riley Mashburn, Trevecca Nazarene Univ, P for Nashville Cruisers

Caroline Mason, Lipscomb Univ, OF for Nashvillel Cruisers

Jennifer Bohle, Creighton Univ, IF for Nebraska Gold

Jamie Gay, Univ of Nebraska at Lincoln, IF for Nebraska Gold

Ashley Hagemann, Univ of Nebraska at Lincoln, P for Nebraska gold

Nikki Haget, Univ of Nebraska at Lincoln, IF for Nebraska Gold

Kylie Hovinga, Creighton, P for Nebraska Gold

Christa Ruf, Creighton, OF for Nebraska Gold

Nikki Cognigni, Pittsburgh, IF for NJ Breakers

Cipolloni, Giannina, Virginia, IF for NJ Breakers

Alexis Nowell, South Florida, for NJ Breakers

Kirby Wright, Nebraska, C for NJ Breakers

Caroline DeVincenzi, Lewis & Clark, OF for Nor Cal Shockers

Sarah Neuhaus, Chicago University, P for Nor Cal Shockers

Kelly Sarginson, Loyola Marymount, IF for Nor Cal Shockers

Mary Claire Brenner, Oregon State, OF for NW Bullets Gold

Paige Hall, Oregon State, P for NW Bullets Gold

Baily Harris, U of Washington, P for NW Bullets Gold

Britny Cushing, Washburn, IF for Olathe Rockets

Sierra Lessel, Willamette Univ, OF for Oregon Reign

Kelly Murray, Manhattan, IF for Polar Crush

Powlowsky, Nastasha, Sienna, for Polar Crush

Tori Ferreria, Cal Baptist Univ, P for San Diego Renegades

Adrienne Monka, Northwestern, C/IF for So Cal Athletics

Rachel Brown, Harvard, P for So Cal Breakers

Hannah Clements, Utah, OF for So Cal Breakers

Alyssa Dronenberg, CSUSM, IF for So Cal Breakers

Kelly Majam, Hawaii, OF/P for So Cal Breakers

Lelani Bernardino, Memphis, OF for So Cal Choppers

Jessica Spigner, Tennessee, IF/P for So Cal Choppers

Hannah Klein, Seattle Univ, P/IF for So Cal Pumas

Sam Fischer, Loyola Marymount, IF for So Cal Pumas

Courtney Moore, Cal Poly, IF/OF for Sorcerer Phil

Ashley Fleming, Missouri, IF/OF for St Louis Chaos

Kelcie Matesa, St Louis University, P for St Louis Chaos

Kelsi Weseman, Georgia Tech, IF for Texas Blaze

Morgan Lukas, UTSA, P for Texas Express

Stephanie Shiflet, Southern Mississippi, OF for Texas Express

Brittany Griffiths, Arkansas, SS for Texas Glory Gold Shelton

Lisa Johnson, North Texas, IF for Texas Glory Gold Shelton

Elizabeth Perez, Cameron University, P for Texas Fusion

Hannah Schwarz, Texas A&M CC, OF for Texas Hawks

Brittany Arredondo, N/A, IF for Texas Impact

Nadia Taylor, Texas, C for Texas Impact

Lindsay Delamater, Chapman, P for The Next Level

Chelsea Troupe, UTEP, C for The Next Level

Sarah Vlahos, Palomar CC, IF for The Next Level

And everyone of them lost. It didnt help.

[fasterpitch92701]

+2 for that one...

[NORCALGOLD]

Something that is missing in this conversation is Gold fastpitch softball or travelball is not the #1 priority with ASA they have Recball and Mens softball that are more of a priority.They don't really think or care much about the quality of teams at their nationals, what they care about is
quanity and they will get their 64 teams or 140 16u teams premier or no premier they will continue on with a weaker product.
I think their is a better way for 18 and 16 elite teams to compete and hopefully it will be Premier
combined with the new SoCal Finest.

[PDad]

From Spysoftball, a short list of college girls that were at Nationals:

College Pitchers and Players at Gold (sophomores who graduated 2008)
...
Courtney Moore, Cal Poly, IF/OF for Sorcerer Phil
...

And everyone of them lost. It didnt help.

You missed one...

[Gary Haning]

Wow! There is so much here and in the other thread that I can/t begin to reply to it all but here are some thoughts/answers...

First to the person who asked about non-profit, sorry but this is about the funniest comment I have read. ASA may be a registered non-profit but they make TONS of money, ask the teams who pony up for every little thing that is added each year.

As to us, we will be lucky not to lose a good deal of money, if some of the potential sponsors do not come through we will lose.

Surf City Tournaments is a business, it is a corporation, we report earnings, we pay taxes. The tournaments do not make nearly as much as people speculate but they do not lose by any means. We do not apologize for that, we work our tails off for months at a time.

All of the things we are doing for the Premier events have been suggested to ASA, in conversation and in proposed legislation. more than once, more than twice.

We have nothing whatsoever against college athletes, we in fact have plans for a 21U or 23U division.

ASA cannot "sanction" a team because plays in another organization or tournament. If this tournament is not a success teams can just return to ASA at will.

People choose my team and teams like it for many reasons, college exposure, training, competition, the players will go where these things are offered, ASA or otherwise.

[DunninLA]

Wadeintothem,

I have to disagree with your basic argument, while agreeing that it applies to 10U, 12U and 14U.

By 16U, it's ALL about looking toward college. People will play for whomever puts them in the strongest position for college team placement. People pick historically (it is now a self perpetuating reputation) strong programs that position them well for college, and would do so even if that team NEVER went to Gold Nationals. If Coach X is consulted by college coaches and gets college coaches to take a look at his/her team, then that is #1. These historically strong teams attract top players because of the COLLEGE connections.

Second, these players want to face other top players. They do this all year without going to Gold Naitonals. What's one more week?

As far as 16U - 18G, you've got the Cart (ASA Nationals) before the Horse (positioning for College recruiting). The Horse will run free with or without the cart.. more freely in fact.

[wadeintothem]

Really?

Then riddle me this batman, why do teams full of college signed or college players spend tens of thousands to go to nationals?

They do it because they want to win or at least have a good showing and want the recognition of being a top program. This draws the recruiter. You think of it as a cart/horse. I think of it as a circle.

Dont forget, GH didnt make two posts before he listed his ASA <-- resume for his cred.

He didnt say "hey I won a socal friendly in 2004" or "I wont a UTrip qualifier" or "I got 100 players signed". His resume is his past championships.

Why were the qualifications to be in Gary's club ASA ranking at nationals.. a qualfication he stated that his own team "barely" made (phew bet that was a close one)?



The mere DEFINITION of a top program, whether it is to be in GH's club or otherwise, is ASA national ranking.

[Sftbll4ever]

Really?

Then riddle me this batman, why do teams full of college signed or college players spend tens of thousands to go to nationals?

They do it because they want to win or at least have a good showing and want the recognition of being a top program. This draws the recruiter. You think of it as a cart/horse. I think of it as a circle.

Dont forget, GH didnt make two posts before he listed his ASA <-- resume for his cred.

He didnt say "hey I won a socal friendly in 2004" or "I wont a UTrip qualifier" or "I got 100 players signed". His resume is his past championships.

Why were the qualifications to be in Gary's club ASA ranking at nationals.. a qualfication he stated that his own team "barely" made (phew bet that was a close one)?



The mere DEFINITION of a top program, whether it is to be in GH's club or otherwise, is ASA national ranking.

That is exactly what DunninLA is saying. The college girls do want to win the nationals, but for the girls that are not in college and looking to get in, they want the opportunity to be seen by those scouts. That is more important to most of the girls, college. They are just using softball as a way to get there. A way to get in that they may not have had the chance if they didn't play. I'm just lucky my kids enjoy playing too.

[Gary Haning]

Yes our team made its name in ASA, yes ASA has been the org with most of the best teams for a long time.

If you will look at the teams that will play with us next summer, you will see every team in existence that has won a Gold Nationals and virtually every team that has been in the top 20% over time will play with us.

The NIT was once the big basketball tournament until the NCAA took over and legislated themselves to prominence.

You state that in time all of the better players will go to teams that play ASA, that is patently false. The best players will go where they get the most exposure, the best coaching and the best competition. That will be our tournament next year and we feel it will continue.

The ASA had only to listen to the people who actually run the teams and have to deal with the players, they choose not to even consider our thoughts and wishes.

My team was invited because of the past and the reasonable expectation of what it will be in the future your sarcasm does not really add to the discussion.