Proposed ASA rule changes

[anonlooker]

To me, even with limited number of players and no pitchers, it is still an issue. The problem is not with the big major teams. It is in that next tier of teams. Some managers will put players on a team and not inform them that he is going to replace them with college players until it is too late. They are already qualified, they are signed to the roster and can no longer move.

Well, again we are back to who controls the situation. If a coach does that and it surprises the player and parents, apparently the parents didn't completely vet the coach or just wasn't paying attention.

But can/should you kill an entire group of young ladies who just want a place to play because there are some coaches with questionable scrupples?

"Kill" might be a touch melodramatic, don't you think?

As for the TB coaches picking up these players, once one does it (and some surely will), they all have to in order to compete. Travel ball is already a cost-free farm system for college teams, why should we support the colleges even further by acting as a de facto minor league system once players have moved on?

Each conference should field a summer team. Coaches within the conference can send kids to play summer ball, and the conferences can compete against each other. At least then they'll be playing like competition, not playing down in travel ball.

[MTR]

"Kill" might be a touch melodramatic, don't you think?

Really? Do I need to get my 9 yo GD to explain it to you?

As for the TB coaches picking up these players, once one does it (and some surely will), they all have to in order to compete.

Load of crap and somewhat of a cowardly manner to look at it. If a coach isn't adult enough to run their own team their way, they shouldn't be a coach or any influence on a minor.

Travel ball is already a cost-free farm system for college teams, why should we support the colleges even further by acting as a de facto minor league system once players have moved on?

Yeah, right. Just who created that situation? The naïveté of the parents would have a lot to do with that. IMO, all this todo is pure fear factor used by those who want to control the situation, but that is all it is, MO

Each conference should field a summer team. Coaches within the conference can send kids to play summer ball, and the conferences can compete against each other. At least then they'll be playing like competition, not playing down in travel ball.

I don't believe as many college kids want to play ball as you think. Even the ones who play in the pick-up games I work do so in shifts because they are coming from work or summer classes.

[anonlooker]

As for the TB coaches picking up these players, once one does it (and some surely will), they all have to in order to compete.

Load of crap and somewhat of a cowardly manner to look at it. If a coach isn't adult enough to run their own team their way, they shouldn't be a coach or any influence on a minor.

It's the same mentality that led to the rush to recruit HS sophomores and freshman, so would you include college coaches in your assessment?

Travel ball is already a cost-free farm system for college teams, why should we support the colleges even further by acting as a de facto minor league system once players have moved on?

Yeah, right. Just who created that situation? The naïveté of the parents would have a lot to do with that. IMO, all this todo is pure fear factor used by those who want to control the situation, but that is all it is, MO

ASA, by allowing college kids to come back in the first place. I don't care about control, I just don't want to subsidize some ad hoc tune-up program for college players at the expense of players who have been paying all year long for travel ball.

Each conference should field a summer team. Coaches within the conference can send kids to play summer ball, and the conferences can compete against each other. At least then they'll be playing like competition, not playing down in travel ball.

I don't believe as many college kids want to play ball as you think. Even the ones who play in the pick-up games I work do so in shifts because they are coming from work or summer classes.

Well, there you go. The ones who want to play are already playing. Everyone should be happy.

Why do you want college kids to play so badly?

[AlwaysImprove]

To me, even with limited number of players and no pitchers, it is still an issue. The problem is not with the big major teams. It is in that next tier of teams. Some managers will put players on a team and not inform them that he is going to replace them with college players until it is too late. They are already qualified, they are signed to the roster and can no longer move.

Well, again we are back to who controls the situation. If a coach does that and it surprises the player and parents, apparently the parents didn't completely vet the coach or just wasn't paying attention.

But can/should you kill an entire group of young ladies who just want a place to play because there are some coaches with questionable scrupples?

Once this coach commits this atrocity once he will be immediately relegated to 3rd tier status. Do you see any informed, knowledgeable high school player or parents joining his team after a coach makes this move once?

Every year there are new coaches and new parents. The coach may well start out the year with full intentions of not recruiting college players, or not recruiting any players. Then in June, he has lost a few games he wanted to win, maybe a kid is injured. Then he has a four or five college players approach him. Out goes the high school players. Yeah, he will be vetted out in the future, but there is nothing that keeps from screwing these kids season this year. There is nothing parents can do to vet him out, except play in an association that is smart enough to not allow college players.

What I am telling you, and you seem to not want to 'hear it' is; if you talk to high school parents, you talk to TB coaches, you talk to high school players. They are all happy with how things are now.

You talk to college players that are freshman in college now, and they are happy with the rule. I talked to college players who were freshman three and four years ago. They applaud this rule. They wish it were in place when they were freshman. They felt a ton of pressure from TB coaches to come play for the team that got them the scholarship. Even though they had just spend 20+ hours per week for 9 months practicing, traveling and playing softball and all they want is a bit of a break. Even the smallest of DIII or the smallest of NAIA schools, kids are burned out at the end of the season. Last thing they need is some false/goofy obligation held over their head.

If you change to allow the rule, low level coaches are going to pick up college players and the big teams are going to feel pressure to do it as well. You are back to no one is happy.

So now my question to you. Given that we do not see an overwhelming outcry from anyone. Everyone is largely happy the change was made. Why does this rule need to be changed back? Is it just an sense of purism? Why does Sept 1 change, not get the attention it deserves?

I think this goes back to my problem with ASA currently. They have a limited understanding of what most of the sport of fast pitch is headed. I am not talking about the exposure tournaments or the exposure oriented teams, I am talking about all the teams I know exist at the 18U level. ASA seems very removed/disconnected in these discussions. Maybe you should form a focus group, or a commission a study.

[ontheblack]

Why does Sept 1 change, not get the attention it deserves?

Because it makes sense?

[sofbal1234]

Why does Sept 1 change, not get the attention it deserves?

Because it makes sense?

Complete sense!

[MTR]

It's the same mentality that led to the rush to recruit HS sophomores and freshman, so would you include college coaches in your assessment?

Sure, after all, who is selling the snake oil that a "verbal" is a commitment to the parents to reduce recuiting competition? And who is buying it?

ASA, by allowing college kids to come back in the first place. I don't care about control, I just don't want to subsidize some ad hoc tune-up program for college players at the expense of players who have been paying all year long for travel ball.

That is a load of crap. It is ALL about control. Those who felt they needed support of their power came along and whined about the college players stealing time, when it had absolutely nothing to do with the sanctioning body, but the selling of the carrot chase. ASA had a pure age-based classification. ASA is about championship play, not your personal stage to set up a recruiting platform.

Well, there you go. The ones who want to play are already playing. Everyone should be happy.

And, like 23U, that is not available everywhere. The 23U is a bandaid that lost it's adhesiveness and today's average player just isn't going to be motivated to a pay-to-play situation whether in college or a factory or the mall store.

Why do you want college kids to play so badly?

I don't care whether they play or not. I just do not believe in segregation just because a young lady happens to play softball at the collegiate level.

I believe the classification should be solely based upon age at this point of a young ladies softball career. And when ASA did change, it was done backwards. ASA is a championship-base organization as the NGB of any sport should be. So, why shouldn't the 18U Gold be the Elite program everyone pretends it is? How can you have the best softball players in the country when you are blatently excluding some of the best 18 yo softball players in the country?

[jonriv]

College players "coming back" and displacing HS players is usually not an issue here in this area (CT) 18u teams in this area are either all HS, mix of HS/College or predom college from the get go. HS players are not "released" to play TB until late May or early June- most of the College players are already home by then (except for a very small % that may still be in some WCWS type play) Many of the college players utilize U18 to hone their skills and keep their game up. The TB team my daughter was on last year was predominately college players- except for her and two others and they had no interest in end of season tournaments etc....

From your posts- it appears that some coaches get caught up in the "winning" instead of "developing"

[SoftballSoccerDad]

From your posts- it appears that some coaches get caught up in the "winning" instead of "developing"

And from a lot of the statements I read around here - like yours above - it appears that some people have a problem with those who put a higher priority on winning. Shouldn't players and coaches at that level be trying to win games, no matter what their reasons are?

[jonriv]

From your posts- it appears that some coaches get caught up in the "winning" instead of "developing"

And from a lot of the statements I read around here - like yours above - it appears that some people have a problem with those who put a higher priority on winning. Shouldn't players and coaches at that level be trying to win games, no matter what their reasons are?

No problem with Winning- just when coaches begin to to put winning over players. These are travel programs- not college, not professional- the actions of some of these coaches by bringing in players at the 11th hour "to help the team" are just trying to help themselves.

REAL coaches develop and teach their team-get them to perform at a top level and take them as far as they can go with the same players that get them to the dance in the first place.

Everybody wants to win- but there is a right way to do it.