What's the call? No umpires, please.

[Sam]

I looked at POE #38 in my trusty 2006 rule book....

[wadeintothem]

The rule is position when the ball left the fielders hand.

Both of you said/agreed base last touched when ball went out of play. Thats not the rule. The debate involved base last touched when ball went out of play... which has nothing to do with this play.

The difference can be significant.

For this scenario, it was not significant in terms of the award so you blind squirrels had the award accidentally correct..

But not bad, most of you were at least on the right track!

Its important to know the difference though.. for when it matters.

[daylightkate]

Your right Jofus, for some reason I thought the game was tied and not down by one. Wade, I must be missing something. If it is not the last base you touch and the rule is based on where you where when the throw was made, why would the runner not be put on 2nd? This was my logic.

Batter fly's out, runner does not tag up immediately on the catch but returns to original spot being 1st base. On return to 1st but not there yet, throw from outfield going to F3 is over thrown into the dugout which means runner is awarded two bases from time of throw. Runner is still required to tag 1st is she not? So, in my way of analysing it, R3 needed to touch 1st as base number one at time of throw and then is awarded 2nd base as her 2nd base.

I'd appreciate it if you could maybe explain it a bit better why she gets to go home?

[anonlooker]

The rule is position when the ball left the fielders hand.

The difference can be significant.

Its important to know the difference though.. for when it matters.

Agreed. Right for the wrong reasons doesn't really cut it in the heat of the moment. That's why, when it counts, we all hope to have guys and gals who know the rules as well as our HB umps... regardless of how much razzing we might give you from time to time on here.

[MTR]

If it is not the last base you touch and the rule is based on where you where when the throw was made, why would the runner not be put on 2nd? This was my logic.

Logic? The runner was between 2nd & 3rd at the time the ball left the fielder's hand. Now, add two bases. Third is one, home is two. Not really that hard to understand.

Batter fly's out, runner does not tag up immediately on the catch but returns to original spot being 1st base. On return to 1st but not there yet, throw from outfield going to F3 is over thrown into the dugout which means runner is awarded two bases from time of throw. Runner is still required to tag 1st is she not? So, in my way of analysing it, R3 needed to touch 1st as base number one at time of throw and then is awarded 2nd base as her 2nd base.

Have you read the other posts and explanation? The touching of the bases have nothing, nada, zero, zip, nil to do with the awarding of bases on an overthrow or blocked ball.

[wadeintothem]

Your right Jofus, for some reason I thought the game was tied and not down by one. Wade, I must be missing something. If it is not the last base you touch and the rule is based on where you where when the throw was made, why would the runner not be put on 2nd? This was my logic.

Batter fly's out, runner does not tag up immediately on the catch but returns to original spot being 1st base. On return to 1st but not there yet, throw from outfield going to F3 is over thrown into the dugout which means runner is awarded two bases from time of throw. Runner is still required to tag 1st is she not? So, in my way of analysing it, R3 needed to touch 1st as base number one at time of throw and then is awarded 2nd base as her 2nd base.

I'd appreciate it if you could maybe explain it a bit better why she gets to go home?

There are two sections of 8 5 G at play here.

1) When a runner is between two bases when the ball goes dead, the two base award is governed by the position of the runner when the ball left the throwing fielders hand.

2) A runner is allowed to complete tagging up even when a ball goes dead.


Part 2 does not cancel out part 1.. in fact it is an explicit written exception to 85G . So the fact the runner returns all the way to 1B to tag up does not negate the fact she was between 2 & 3B when the fielder released the ball before it went out of play.

So in this play, runner touches 1B. Runner is awarded home (2B +2), defensive coach is then ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct when he has a heart attack and calls you a few expletives. Plus all the parents who "never heard that before" hate you.


Alternatively, if the base runner fails to touch 1B, the runner may be out on a dead ball appeal by defense... in which case you must eject the offensive coach...

[anonlooker]

1) When a runner is between two bases when the ball goes dead, the two base award is governed by the position of the runner when the ball left the throwing fielders hand.

2) A runner is allowed to complete tagging up even when a ball goes dead.

defensive coach is then ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct when he has a heart attack and calls you a few expletives. Plus all the parents who "never heard that before" hate you.

Alternatively, if the base runner fails to touch 1B, the runner may be out on a dead ball appeal by defense... in which case you must eject the offensive coach...

LOL on the coaches getting tossed... hopefully you will have fewer ejections next season as at least the HB coaches will know the rule. (not implying that some of you don't already!! )

So the key to this, above and beyond where the runner is when the throw is made, is that she must return to 1B to tag up.

So at what point do you award home? What if, when it goes dead ball, she turns back around (without touching 1B), goes to 3B (or 2B for that matter) and just stands there on the bag?

I ask because I've heard coaches tell girls, if they (the BR) aren't sure where to go, it's better to get on a base, any base, as opposed to stopping and looking lost somewhere between bases (where she might get tagged out - although obviously not here as the ball is dead).

[Vegasdad]

Crap I lost! And I even had Skarp on my side. You umps are a bunch of^*&#% Not really. just kidding guys, but I do have to disagree with the rule where it says the position of the player at the time of the ball going out of play. To me, second base is not obtained untill she tagges up which does not happen until after the ball is out play. Sounds like a loop hole in the rules that MTR pointed out to us insiders.

[Skarp]

Crap I lost! And I even had Skarp on my side. You umps are a bunch of^*&#% Not really. just kidding guys, but I do have to disagree with the rule where it says the position of the player at the time of the ball going out of play. To me, second base is not obtained untill she tagges up which does not happen until after the ball is out play. Sounds like a loop hole in the rules that MTR pointed out to us insiders.

Hah! You had the wrong ally on a subject like this. I usually keep my mouth shut when it comes to substantive softball discussions...and for good reason.

I'm more than happy to let the rule and strategy wonks spoon-feed me the information.

[Vegasdad]

I agree, but I'm going to stomp my feet all the way to parking lot on this one.