Region 14 to limit number of Gold Teams?

[Sam]

The problem is that there is no problem...other than Region 14 has their heads up their collective rears.

The fact is that there are more players that can play at the Gold level than when ASA first started the division....there aren't enough elite teams to fit in all these players, so they join another Gold team. Should these players be denied the opportunity to play with their peers? No.

The number of teams in a tournament is a stupid argument. They can limit the number of teams they accept...but they don't because they want the extra money.

They won't be able to come to a consensus as to what constitutes a Gold team or even how many there actually are because the relative talent changes every year. Picking a maximum number of Gold teams is completely arbritrary.

The entire fiasco is an excercise in idiocy. Par for the course for these guys.

[fasterpitch92701]

or.... another perspective;

Gold teams have lost their luster as teams hype themselves as "gold" to gain revenue from parents living under the illusion that their semi-talented DD will get a full ride to Stanford if she only plays "gold". And, of course, there is always a coach/organization willing to tell parents that their DD really needs to play gold to get noticed as she sits on the pine and daddy writes checks. Everyone loses in the end.

There are some very good gold teams and many chopped liver gold teams. Organizations trying to pump cash flow love the concept of additional players regardless of caliber. Having witnessed several "gold" teams in Colorado this summer, teams that couldn't compete against L.A. 14U's, it is not hard to imagine that some organizational bodies might see the writing on the wall. If the term "gold" gets "talented down" to mediocrity then basic structure implodes.

The proliferation of "gold" teams is not supported by talent. The question now becomes; what is a rational, viable, implementable way manage and run a true gold structure. Perhaps limiting players to those with drivers licenses is a start, although that only deals with age, not expertise. As noted by another poster, when more and more 9th graders are playing "gold" that should be a hint that something is amiss...

JMHO

[Sam]

All you have to do is answer these questions:

1) How many Gold teams will be approved? Why that number?
2) What are the minimum requirements for a team to obtain Gold status?
3) Do teams have to re-certify every year?
4) What do you do with teams that qualify for Gold status after you have already approved the maximum number of teams?
5) Exactly how many attornies do you have at your disposal?
6) Why are you limiting the number of Gold teams? Are all the other Regions doing the same?
7) My daughter can play Gold level ball, but all of the Gold teams are full....what are you going to do about it?

[ssarge]

Sam is absolutely correct. There is little in the way of a problem here, and what problem may exist is 100% self-policing.

First, limiting the number of Gold teams would not limit the number of teams that want to play in the "Gold" dividion in showcases. Such tournaments either already limit entries - based on whichever criteria they hold dear - or accept pretty much all entries and find fields so all entered teams can play.

And some of those fields are bad, and the weaker teams end up on them, and people - as always - make economic decisions as to whether it is worth continuing to play for the teams. Supply-and-and demand prevails, and entropy ensues (everything finds its own level). What's the problem here?

Well, none, frankly.

Eliminating the Gold showcases leaves three championship tournaments (a regional and two territorials). The 2008 Regional in Lancaster atracted 99 teams (and play was done by about 5:00pm Sunday, so I DON'T see a problem). And if the number continues to grow, start at 8:00am Friday instead of 1:00pm - everyone has to miss work on Friday anyway, what's the difference?

I forget how many teams were in Stockton, but it was less - maybe 70-75? - and the tournament was easily manageable. Outside of playing one round of games in the pit at Regional on Friday, everything went well, and the torunament accomodated everyone and was well run.

In Seattle, teams dropped out left and right - see the economics explanation above - and there were only about 60 teams.

All Championship tournaments started on Friday - as always - and all tournaments were done by a reasonable hour on Sunday.

Again, what is the problem?

And if it IS a problem, then announce that in the FUTURE, there may be a round of qualifying before the Regional or Territorials. But DO NOT retroactively (tryouts for 2009 are pretty much over) tell people that they can't compete at the level they choose.


Geez, no wonder some of the GOBs are talking about pulling out of ASA. Weaker teams clouding the landscape may well be an issue concerning some of those teams. But my guess is that the bigger issue is this kind of reactionary, seat-of-the-pants decision making by ASA "officials."

ASA did everything they could last year to jury-rig things so less California Gold teams could / would qualify. Now they want to make it so less California Gold teams even PLAY. And of course, the whole problem only came about because they unbelievably - and ludicrously - changed pitching distance to 43' for Gold, and kept it at 40' for 18A. Thus KILLING 18A, and creating the PERCEIVED problem in the first place. An ABSOLUTELY preditable outcome which was in fact predicted by absolutely everyone who has been doing this for more than about a year. 18A will come back, now that ASA finally came to their senses (in this one area at least) and changed the 18A distance to 43'. Come back EVENTUALLY. Without ASA doing anything else to "fix" it.

Too many more ASA "fixes" could kill JO altogether.


If the stronger SoCal Gold programs ever DO leave - and don't bet against it - ASA will have the competitive landscape across the country which they so obviously covet. GEOGRPHIC PARITY - apparently, that is pretty freaking important. Of course, the strongest teams won't be a part of things, so it will all be Pyhrric. They'll smugly claim "victory" though. Simply amazing.

[NorCal LVer]

You only have to look at this weekend’s “Showcase of Talent” to see that inequities abound in the (78) listed 18U Gold teams. Jamming all these teams together and calling it “Gold” just adds fuel to the fire.

[Sam]

You only have to look at this weekend’s “Showcase of Talent” to see that inequities abound in the (78) listed 18U Gold teams. Jamming all these teams together and calling it “Gold” just adds fuel to the fire.

There is no fire. Its a showcase. Who gives a crap about the teams.

[NorCal LVer]

Sam,

For one, Gold is losing all respect.

I can’t believe you don’t see it… I just picked one of the 16U teams roster. (6) 7th graders, and (6) 8th graders playing in a 16U meaningless showcase. These kids should be playing tournament style under pressure.

And why are they playing this? (78) Gold teams has everything to do with it!

[Sam]

Sam,

For one, Gold is losing all respect.

I can’t believe you don’t see it… I just picked one of the 16U teams roster. (6) 7th graders, and (6) 8th graders playing in a 16U meaningless showcase. These kids should be playing tournament style under pressure.

And why are they playing this? (78) Gold teams has everything to do with it!

Losing respect from who? The ASA qualification procedure weeds out teams. Exactly what is the problem? Is anyone saying that Gold Nationals is watered down? If not, then what is the problem?


Answer: None

[Skarp]

Too many more ASA "fixes" could kill JO altogether.

An excellent observation that can be generalized to just about anything. Quit trying to manage outcomes, and let the market (i.e., free choice) work.

Or prepare to get beaten down by the law of unintended consequences.

[Intel]

Why not have each metro hold a "gold qualifying tournament" with the top "some number" team move on to the gold qualifier and the remaining can try again at a territory. Kind of sounds like "A" ball to me.

I think we are trying to solve the wrong problem. Maybe we should look at what we can do to enhance 18A instead of limiting 18 gold.