Have a question...
R1 on first due to BB, batter 2 comes up singles R1 advances to 2nd. Batter 3 comes up base hit OF, in the process of picking up the ball, drops it which allows R1 to score, R2 to advance to 3 and R3 to second. Batter 4 comes up, singles and scores R2 and R3.
How many earned runs???
Fastpitch Discussions
1st 2 should be earned since they would have scored anyways without the potential 3rd out being recorded. The 3rd run would depend; if 3 K's in a row recorded then that run wouldn't have scored. If another basehit occurs then it would be earned since R3 would have scored without the advancement of the error. I think this is correct. Unless your daughter is the pitcher then all 3 runs are UNEARNED!
- playball
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:03 am
I like these. I could be wrong here, but I believe you have 3 earned runs. I think one of important factors in Earned Runs is how many outs there are and what the next batter or batters do after an error that allows a runner to advance.
In your scenario, I'm assuming no outs since B1 thru B4 were all on base. The error that allowed R1 to score goes as an Earned run since same R1 would've scored on B4's hit.
If B5, B6, and B7 all strikeout with no passed balls or anything else that would've advanced R3, you could possibly only have 2 earned runs. Since R3 advanced to 2B into scoring position on the outfield error, its probable R3 would not have scored from 1B on a routine single. Again, this is dependent on what the other at bats produce.
Again, I'm not a professional scorekeep but thats my take on it.
In your scenario, I'm assuming no outs since B1 thru B4 were all on base. The error that allowed R1 to score goes as an Earned run since same R1 would've scored on B4's hit.
If B5, B6, and B7 all strikeout with no passed balls or anything else that would've advanced R3, you could possibly only have 2 earned runs. Since R3 advanced to 2B into scoring position on the outfield error, its probable R3 would not have scored from 1B on a routine single. Again, this is dependent on what the other at bats produce.
Again, I'm not a professional scorekeep but thats my take on it.
- ArmChairCoach
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:37 pm
Left out some info. Two outs when BB happened. After 3rd run scored, next batter K'd.
I asked only because when I kept the book, I had it as 2 earned runs and 1 unearned as the next batter K's. At the same time as I keep book, I use the scorekeeping software. Scorekeeping software has it as 3 unearned runs.
Oh, and this was not my dd pitching!!!
Both of my dd's were Batter 2 and 3 respectively.
I asked only because when I kept the book, I had it as 2 earned runs and 1 unearned as the next batter K's. At the same time as I keep book, I use the scorekeeping software. Scorekeeping software has it as 3 unearned runs.
Oh, and this was not my dd pitching!!!
Both of my dd's were Batter 2 and 3 respectively. - Sftbll4ever
- Posts: 1842
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:27 am
OK, now the 3rd run is not earned. The first 2 should be earned. Still some interpretation as to whether the OF should have held the runner at 3rd if ball wasn't dropped.
- playball
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:03 am
playball wrote:OK, now the 3rd run is not earned. The first 2 should be earned. Still some interpretation as to whether the OF should have held the runner at 3rd if ball wasn't dropped.
Ground ball to the outfield (CF), R1 held up at 3rd until CF picked up ball (barehand) and mishandled it. R1 was unearned in my book.
Seems to me that the powers that be have it correct and the software is wrong!!!
- Sftbll4ever
- Posts: 1842
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:27 am
I believe you scored it properly.
I've run into this a few times with TurboStats 12. I was missing RBI's for players and found out you have to score things in a proper order. The hit must be scored and each runner moved up a base and credited to the batter moving them, then an error, then an advance to an EXISTING error. Not sure this applied to your unearned runs problem but I know this has happened to me also.
Just to throw a wrench in here... I've been wondering about something also. Let me get your take. We've all seen popups behind the plate (in foul territory) where the catcher is camped under the ball, gust of wind blows and the catcher has to adjust quickly to catch it and in the process the ball goes off the glove. Next pitch (as always) the ball smoked to the gap for a double. Would you score this a 2B or an E2 ?? By all rights, batter should be out. Then again, do you punish a catcher for a difficult play? I know I know, alot of interpretation as to why the ball was dropped or missed.
I've run into this a few times with TurboStats 12. I was missing RBI's for players and found out you have to score things in a proper order. The hit must be scored and each runner moved up a base and credited to the batter moving them, then an error, then an advance to an EXISTING error. Not sure this applied to your unearned runs problem but I know this has happened to me also.
Just to throw a wrench in here... I've been wondering about something also. Let me get your take. We've all seen popups behind the plate (in foul territory) where the catcher is camped under the ball, gust of wind blows and the catcher has to adjust quickly to catch it and in the process the ball goes off the glove. Next pitch (as always) the ball smoked to the gap for a double. Would you score this a 2B or an E2 ?? By all rights, batter should be out. Then again, do you punish a catcher for a difficult play? I know I know, alot of interpretation as to why the ball was dropped or missed.
- ArmChairCoach
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:37 pm
ArmChairCoach wrote:I believe you scored it properly.
I've run into this a few times with TurboStats 12. I was missing RBI's for players and found out you have to score things in a proper order. The hit must be scored and each runner moved up a base and credited to the batter moving them, then an error, then an advance to an EXISTING error. Not sure this applied to your unearned runs problem but I know this has happened to me also.
Just to throw a wrench in here... I've been wondering about something also. Let me get your take. We've all seen popups behind the plate (in foul territory) where the catcher is camped under the ball, gust of wind blows and the catcher has to adjust quickly to catch it and in the process the ball goes off the glove. Next pitch (as always) the ball smoked to the gap for a double. Would you score this a 2B or an E2 ?? By all rights, batter should be out. Then again, do you punish a catcher for a difficult play? I know I know, alot of interpretation as to why the ball was dropped or missed.
Scored it correctly on the software and it still wants to make them unearned.
Had this same conversation with DH last night regarding the catcher as our catcher did the same thing. Easy popup, catcher misses it. Next pitch base hit, girl never scored, but DH said if she had, it should be an unearned run, E2.
Thoughts!?!?!
Also had a first time call that I had never seen yesterday. Intentionally walking batter, catcher stands up to take pitch outside. Before pitch is thrown, she steps outside. Illegal pitch called on pitcher. Should be a better way to call this as this is a catcher error not a pitcher error. (Yes, dd was pitching on this one)
- Sftbll4ever
- Posts: 1842
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:27 am
Yes, I agree on the E2, or any other fielder that drops a foul ball that SHOULD be a normal out.
On my software, I could have "advanced" the runner "on error" then by selecting catcher. Scored as E2 on the sheets. It is a difficult scoring since the call was an illegal pitch. But, the E2 did cause the pitch to be illegal.
Another category needs to be implemented. I got this from Eric Nadell - the Texas Rangers announcer and Lord nows he is well aware of scenarios involving errors since being around the Rangers for so long. He mentions a "team error" on occasion. Fly ball to the outfield between LF and CF, for example, either one can catch the ball but both call the ball, and at last minute, they both pull up and let it drop. He says its ruled as a single but should be a "team error". Those are tough.
The other thing I don't like in TurboStats is the situation with runners on 1B and 3B. Runner on 1B goes to second on the pitch with no throw. Technically, this is "Defensive Indifference" but there's no option on that. I usually just "Award Base" to runner.
On my software, I could have "advanced" the runner "on error" then by selecting catcher. Scored as E2 on the sheets. It is a difficult scoring since the call was an illegal pitch. But, the E2 did cause the pitch to be illegal.
Another category needs to be implemented. I got this from Eric Nadell - the Texas Rangers announcer and Lord nows he is well aware of scenarios involving errors since being around the Rangers for so long. He mentions a "team error" on occasion. Fly ball to the outfield between LF and CF, for example, either one can catch the ball but both call the ball, and at last minute, they both pull up and let it drop. He says its ruled as a single but should be a "team error". Those are tough.
The other thing I don't like in TurboStats is the situation with runners on 1B and 3B. Runner on 1B goes to second on the pitch with no throw. Technically, this is "Defensive Indifference" but there's no option on that. I usually just "Award Base" to runner.
- ArmChairCoach
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:37 pm
From MLB.com not necessary for runners to advance or reach base for an error to be charged
10.12 Errors
An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has assisted the team on offense, as set forth in this Rule 10.12.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases, unless, in the judgment of the official scorer, such fielder deliberately permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch;
Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter. It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error.
10.12 Errors
An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has assisted the team on offense, as set forth in this Rule 10.12.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases, unless, in the judgment of the official scorer, such fielder deliberately permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch;
Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter. It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error.
- SnocatzDad
- Posts: 514
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:04 am
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