Movie: The Hunger Games, and hyper competitiveness at 10U?

[DunninLA]

I watched The Hunger Games three nights ago with my 17 yr. old DD. I hadn't really wanted to watch it, since the topic sounded depressing to me (12 males, 12 female aged 12-18 drafted by lottery into a to-the-death gladiator style competition with only one victor). BTW I had always had the same reaction to the Roman Gladiatorial to-the-death contests, and those were grown men. Sometimes those Gladiatorial contests are used to prove how far the Roman civilization had degraded and lost its moral compass. But she had read the book and said it was a great movie, so we watched it together. What also piqued my interest is that during the Olympics, the commentators said that The Hunger Games had made the Archery competition much more popular an event than it had been in prior Olympics (the main character of the Hunger Games was a skilled archer).

My wife didn't even want to see it, but the following night, I suggested she should watch it since it was a topic of general converation, and it would be good to have an opinion on it. It bothered me less the 2nd time, but she kept saying -- THIS is the kind of movie the today's teenagers LIKE? What kind if cynical, jaded kids are we rasing? Where did we go wrong with DD that she likes this movie and thinks it is entertaining?

OK, so that got me to thinking about the general topic that kids grow up WAY quicker than 30-40 years ago. And we parents (usually) can't do much to stop that what with TV, movies, songs, Internet being ubiquitous and pervasive, and having more influence over our kids, and their friends and peer group, than they ever did when we grew up.

So, what does that have to do with Fastpitch Softball? There is a thread on the Premier section about 10U Premier. Is 10U too young to expose children to the "In it to Win It", you know, win at all cost, mentality of the highest echelons of athletic competition? Granted, some 10U players are bigger physcally than my 17 year old who is 5'4" and 105 lbs. But their BRAINS are not fully formed, and they are especially malleable at this age. Do we want to expose them to a hyper competitive way of orienting to the world at age 9 and 10?

Sure, the world is a highly competitive, sometims dog eat dog place. Do we want our 9 and 10 year old daughters to internalize that way of thinking (which permanently affects the brain pathways) at this time in their development? Should youthful innocence be preseved a little longer than age 10?

Does anybody else react to the idea that innocent 12-18 your old boys and girls fighting to the death is as NOT enjoyable or pleasant to think about? Does anyybody think that the type of hyper competitiveness represented by PFG or ASA Nationals icould be detrimental to the way our 9 and 10 year olds look at the world ... that maybe it is too early in their youth to learn that the world is not such a safe place after all?

[airborne]

When my daughter was 10, she was an only child. Yet she was as competitive as any kid we met. I couldn't understand why a kid who was honestly spoiled wanted to be the best at everything. Then I found a mirror. As it relates to ball, @ 10 my daughter was more advanced than a lot of kids she played rec ball with. So we started playing "travel ball". At that time, that meant about a 50 mile radius from home. it allowed her to compete against some kids that were of the same skill set as well as some above and some below. I didn't see the need to travel to "nationals". We stuck with this until 14U. I never stressed winning, I stress her doing her best, winning is sometimes a by product.

[artomatic]

hhhmmm...not sure if this explains why my kids are as messed up as they are, but I kind of want to see this movie now...

[DunninLA]

As it relates to ball, @ 10 my daughter was more advanced than a lot of kids she played rec ball with. So we started playing "travel ball". I didn't see the need to travel to "nationals". We stuck with this until 14U. I never stressed winning, I stress her doing her best, winning is sometimes a by product.

Right. I should have been more specific, b/c I was assuming since I mentioned ASA Nationals and PGF, that I'm talking about teams that target and prepare for Nationals (not regional Nationals or other, less competitive Sanctions).

Even within ASA/PGF, there are at least five levels of commitment, objective, cost, and preparation. With each level of increased competition, there is increased time, effort, and money devoted, which basically means... winning vs. losing becomes increasingly critical, and having fun, practicing fewer hours, or spending less money, and most importanly, not winning the majority of games becomes increasingly unacceptable.

- ASA B All-Stars, regional objectives
- ASA B All-Stars, Nationals objectives
- ASA A Travel, but teams that target, plan for, qualify for, and prepare for Regionals
- ASA A Travel, teams that target, plan for, qualify for, and prepare for Nationals.
- PGF: let's define that at the top 35% of teams that would qualify for ASA Nationals

My post is mostly asking whether the last two... ASA A Nationals, and PFG, are possibly too competitive for 9 and 10 year old players... that possibly it changes their view of the world at an age when their brains are not yet developed enough to deal with winning/losing in a healthy way. I'm not saying ti is unhealthy for them... I'm asking the question in light of the general topic of "Kids Growing Up Way too Fast"

this question is not just about Fastpitch Softball... it is also about Beauty Pageants (such as those I see on TV with contestants from 3 yrs. on up), and other sports, including Chess.

[Trophy Hunter]

I think the kids just show up and play, they're trying to win in any case, if it's local league ball or nationals. How the experience impacts them can be good or bad, and largely depends on how well their parents are prepared to deal with it.

There are plenty of examples of kids who competed at the highest levels in their sport, some turned out okay, others not so well, again largely the product of how they were raised. Most kids will grow up to be normal (whatever that means).

Look at Agassi. High expectations and intense pressure to win from a young age. He was at the top of his game, then went through a rough patch, now he seems to be okay. Fairly normal, but on a more visible scale than most people. Was his drug use the result of playing highly competitive tennis at a young age? I doubt it, when you consider most people use (or experiment) with drugs and alcohol at some point in their lives. His failed relationships are hardly unusual. If you strip away 'rich and famous' he is pretty much a normal guy in most regards.

Look at Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding. They were both in the same situation, but they didn't come from the same situation, they didn't deal with it similarly, and they ended up on much different (and almost predictable) paths.

Does the competition itself define the kid? No, not at all. The expectations and pressure put on them by their parents, and how they are treated afterward, win or lose, will go a long way toward shaping the kids self-esteem and eventual world view.

[ontheblack]

The expectations and pressure put on them by their parents, and how they are treated afterward, win or lose, will go a long way toward shaping the kids self-esteem and eventual world view.

I think that nails it.

[Safebyahare]

I watched this movie with my daughter last night....The director must be a Tim Burton fan. Movie kinda has that twist.
It was only an OK movie, nothing really there. Story line only OK. Now what next, Lord of the Flys???
As for 10u. game on, have fun, let the kids play and the parents egos fly.
I must be missing something in your post. There is nothing wrong with a competition movie.,,Hell competition is everywhere!
It is a shame when the parents con not disconnect themselves from their kids game.

[McGee]

It all depends on the players ,and to some degree, parental goals and objectives. Most parents don't have the expereince and perspective to paint a true picture. The "travel ball" game, while fun and rewarding, is a long and hard grind and starting a 10U risks bith parental qnd player burnout in pursuit of goals thatt aren't clear.
For kids with skilled players but strong academically waiting is probably the best choice. Stretch them academically first. For for sinle child families 10U may be reasoonablebut mutiple child fanmlies, the sacrifice may be too great.
Also the 10 U level is before most girls are mature so there true longer term potential is unclear. If you are in search of college scholarships, you won't know the true ability until they are mature.

[Vess Express]

After a 10U tourney several years ago, I remember looking around at the kids after losing a championship game. Some were upset and teary-eyed, and some were just concerned about where they were going for dinner. For the upset kids, it didn't matter the level of competition, they just know they wanted to win that game, that day. I think it's another one of those, "How your brain is wired" kind of things.

But, besides the hard wired stuff, parents can make the situation better or worse for kids. Some parents can never, ever accept the fact that their dd will not be the stud player everyone talks about, and they can brag about. They cannot be proud of what their dd can do, they can only be angry about what they can't. I think that's where the hyper competitiveness becomes a problem. The parents keep spending more and more on teams, and tournaments, and practice 6 days a week, because everyone tells them that will make their dd better. Then, when their dd doesn't perform to their expectations, their heads nearly explode. Or, they scratch their heads wondering why everybody doesn't see their kid's "potential".

As far as the movie goes, I thought it was pretty good - and a great movie for young girls. I know the part about teens having to kill other teens to survive is harsh, but that's really more of the background of the movie. The real story line, to me, is about a teenage girl who has the courage to stand up and protect her little sister, the smarts to work the system she is thrown into, and the strength to be physical if she needs to.

[TheCloser]

It depends on the kid. My DD started playing travel a 9 and has loved it. My wife didn't want her to play travel at that age and went as far as not letting me take her to the second tryout after she was called back. I told her ok, have it your way. The next weekend we played in our rec winterball league and killed the teams like 15-1 and 13-0.

After those two games, I made her call the coach and tell him she had been sick and so he invited her out to a Wednesday practice. She made the team that night and it's been an great ride since.

As far as PGF, we went to Bloomington, IN that year for ASA. It was an awesome experience that we still talk about today. It's never too early in my mind if your kid is ready for it.