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Surf City Delays

Questions and discussions involving PGF

by rlblue82 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:30 pm

AlwaysImprove wrote:
Ginzunz89 wrote:Every so often, a field needs to be looked at before they assign games. Every so often, a discount would be good if a field is in bad shape.
If it's advertised that certain parks will be used, and we pay for to play in those parks, good. But if we end up playing in a garbage field, a little discount would be nice. In a perfect world right. So, has nothing to do with new or established team. Maybe it should be advertised as, if your new you will play in a field with no chalk, no watering down dirt, no food, no vending. ...then it will be up to each team to pay and play....

Honestly, I could give two turds about the umps, the fields, chalk. If you are getting to play on fields where coaches are showing up, that is all that matters. Stay focused.

If they take all the top tier teams and move them to East Whittier, then everyone would want to be at East Whittier.

What you should care about as a coach is maximizing your opportunities to play in front of coaches. To do that you need to maximize your teams opportunities to play teams that are up market from your team. To play teams that have more coaches than your team does.

It is important to realize that when that team up the food chain from yours has to come down and play your team, they are not accomplishing their goals.

Think a bit about what Under the Radar's post shows. It shows that his team can draw coaches to Artesia. This will do more than anything else to help swing better opportunities to his team in the future. Other coaches see their hard work and they want to be on the field with his team.

I know it is a stacked process and for new teams that do not have much reputation it all seems unfair/impossible. For instance go down to Artesia and find Under the Radar's team, maybe pm him here. Of course, when those coaches are there watching his kids, a team manager is not going to have any time for you. At some point his team comes off the field, he has the manager talk, and sends his kids on their way. At that point go up to him, introduce yourself, ask him if he can take a few minutes to work with you. Ask him questions.

It is pretty typical for Surf City, or other bigger organizers. If you are a middle team, you often get one higher end team to play, 4 teams at your level, and one up and coming team to play. You want to be that up and coming team. By taking some time and getting to know as many of the teams that are up market from your team. Introduce yourself. Show you are willing to put in the hard work to be a successful manager. They will help you because they were you a few years ago.

If all you care about is good fields, chalk and umps, then surf city is just the wrong choice for you. There are plenty of tournament guys that have those things covered. They will not have any coaches, but great fields and umps and chalk. If you are interested in maximizing playing in front of college coaches, then surf city has something to offer. I am just trying to point out how to maximize your efforts if you choose surf city.


Excellent post! Thanks for sharing!
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by BB2830 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:19 pm

AlwaysImprove wrote:
Sylmar-Softball wrote:
BB2830 wrote:I get both sides but think the poster makes valid points. We were fortunate enough to get invited to the PGF Elite 32 and played on the stadium fields at D9. Great exposure and experiences both. We also got stuck at a satellite field this weekend. Had a decent number of schools both days based on our body of work and the work put in by our coaches and players.

The point, and a valid one in my opinion, is that if you are paying high dollars for these events you should at a minimum receive a decent and safe playing venue, decent blues and a schedule prior to 3 days before the event starts. PGF / Surf City knew their event and field requirements long before the week before it began and this was not the first event of the Fall with these issues. Blame it on Tustin rec if you want but that is making excuses IMHO. Poor event management at a minimum. Yes, teams can make other choices, and they are out there, but we are all striving to place our DD's in the best position to get noticed and the process can be a guessing game at times.

Surf City should not get a pass just because we know there is a hierarchy and too much politics in place that often times is neither fair nor logical even.


Very well stated.

How is the hierarchy and politics neither fair nor logical?


Okay...
16U Harvard Park:
Cal A's Quinn - 14U Team, all 2019's, 0-2, tied for last 33rd in PGF 14U Platinum in 2015
Irvine Sting - 5-2019's, 1-2020, 16U 0-2, tied for last 65th in PGF Premier, 14U 1-2, tied for 33rd in PGF Premier in 2015
OCBB Campbell - 14U, not the team that won 14U Premier, that's the Smith team
NW Bullets Evenson - 10-2019's, 2-2018's, 2-2017's, 16U tied for 13th in PGF Platinum in 2015

Independence Park:

Power Surge Berndes - 3rd in 16U PGF Platinum in 2015, 11-2017's, 2 Northwestern and 1 SDSU commit
USA Athletics Porter - 13th in 14U PGF Premier in 2015, 2-2017's, 13-2018's
Sorcerer - 17th in PGF 16U Premier in 2015, 10-2017's, 5-2018's, Arizona, Michigan State, Georgetown, Cal Poly, St. Mary's, Toledo commits
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by as the world turns » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:00 pm

BB2830 wrote:
Okay...
16U Harvard Park:
Cal A's Quinn - 14U Team, all 2019's, 0-2, tied for last 33rd in PGF 14U Platinum in 2015
Irvine Sting - 5-2019's, 1-2020, 16U 0-2, tied for last 65th in PGF Premier, 14U 1-2, tied for 33rd in PGF Premier in 2015
OCBB Campbell - 14U, not the team that won 14U Premier, that's the Smith team
NW Bullets Evenson - 10-2019's, 2-2018's, 2-2017's, 16U tied for 13th in PGF Platinum in 2015

Independence Park:

Power Surge Berndes - 3rd in 16U PGF Platinum in 2015, 11-2017's, 2 Northwestern and 1 SDSU commit
USA Athletics Porter - 13th in 14U PGF Premier in 2015, 2-2017's, 13-2018's
Sorcerer - 17th in PGF 16U Premier in 2015, 10-2017's, 5-2018's, Arizona, Michigan State, Georgetown, Cal Poly, St. Mary's, Toledo commits


Is this like a Jeopardy answer and we have to come up with the question? What is........?

Or maybe softball team name Tourette syndrome?
“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” John Wayne
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by BB2830 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:39 am

Question AI asked was how the hierarchy or politics was not fair or logical right? Guess you need a little further explanation. Didn't seem fair OR logical that several 14U teams would be selected to play up in 16U at the most sought after fields and biggest Fall venue over quality 16U teams that had much better PGF performance in 2015 and prior. Or the 16U teams with majority 14U players that again hadn't had a very good PGF finish and were loaded with 2019 and 2020's over teams that have performed well and have majority players at better recruiting age.

Do 2019's and 2020's verbal this early? Yes, foolishly, but very few. The large pool of opportunity lies with colleges finishing off their 2017's and pushing through their 2018's. Outside the SEC, PAC 12.
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by tbjd33 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:54 am

BB2830 wrote:Question AI asked was how the hierarchy or politics was not fair or logical right? Guess you need a little further explanation. Didn't seem fair OR logical that several 14U teams would be selected to play up in 16U at the most sought after fields and biggest Fall venue over quality 16U teams that had much better PGF performance in 2015 and prior. Or the 16U teams with majority 14U players that again hadn't had a very good PGF finish and were loaded with 2019 and 2020's over teams that have performed well and have majority players at better recruiting age.

Do 2019's and 2020's verbal this early? Yes, foolishly, but very few. The large pool of opportunity lies with colleges finishing off their 2017's and pushing through their 2018's. Outside the SEC, PAC 12.


Ever think 17's/18's have had ample opportunity for looks over the past 2 or 3 years?

Ever think the showcases are driven by the requests of the major programs? Listen to the coaches being interviewed and you'll have your answers. Sidenote: I do find it funny many of the big name schools say they hate early recruiting then they are the first to accept commits.

Need to realize coaches are asking for 19's and 20's and there isn't much anyone can do about it... I know most on this board hates that statement but it's true. I have a '19 so We've been knee deep and aware of this madness of early recruiting. It's pure insanity!

Just sayin...
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by BB2830 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:46 pm

tbjd33 wrote:
BB2830 wrote:Question AI asked was how the hierarchy or politics was not fair or logical right? Guess you need a little further explanation. Didn't seem fair OR logical that several 14U teams would be selected to play up in 16U at the most sought after fields and biggest Fall venue over quality 16U teams that had much better PGF performance in 2015 and prior. Or the 16U teams with majority 14U players that again hadn't had a very good PGF finish and were loaded with 2019 and 2020's over teams that have performed well and have majority players at better recruiting age.

Do 2019's and 2020's verbal this early? Yes, foolishly, but very few. The large pool of opportunity lies with colleges finishing off their 2017's and pushing through their 2018's. Outside the SEC, PAC 12.


Ever think 17's/18's have had ample opportunity for looks over the past 2 or 3 years?

Ever think the showcases are driven by the requests of the major programs? Listen to the coaches being interviewed and you'll have your answers. Sidenote: I do find it funny many of the big name schools say they hate early recruiting then they are the first to accept commits.

Need to realize coaches are asking for 19's and 20's and there isn't much anyone can do about it... I know most on this board hates that statement but it's true. I have a '19 so We've been knee deep and aware of this madness of early recruiting. It's pure insanity!

Just sayin...


No, I don't think 17's and 18's have had ample opportunity. Have the SEC, PAC 12, Big 10 and others filled their 17's and 18's? Most of them yes. But there is a MUCH larger list of schools out there that have not. Higher academics, mid majors and everything below that, many of which haven't even touched 18's yet or are just getting started. Flo Softball shows 6 20's and 55 19's verballed, not a huge number.

We have asked the many coaches that have been at our games these past few months and most are still filling '18's and some specific '17 needs. Play the 14's at the 14's venue, the big conferences can see all they want there and the rest of the 1600 + colleges out there can see the age group they are looking for.
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by tbjd33 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:58 pm

BB2830 wrote:
tbjd33 wrote:
BB2830 wrote:Question AI asked was how the hierarchy or politics was not fair or logical right? Guess you need a little further explanation. Didn't seem fair OR logical that several 14U teams would be selected to play up in 16U at the most sought after fields and biggest Fall venue over quality 16U teams that had much better PGF performance in 2015 and prior. Or the 16U teams with majority 14U players that again hadn't had a very good PGF finish and were loaded with 2019 and 2020's over teams that have performed well and have majority players at better recruiting age.

Do 2019's and 2020's verbal this early? Yes, foolishly, but very few. The large pool of opportunity lies with colleges finishing off their 2017's and pushing through their 2018's. Outside the SEC, PAC 12.


Ever think 17's/18's have had ample opportunity for looks over the past 2 or 3 years?

Ever think the showcases are driven by the requests of the major programs? Listen to the coaches being interviewed and you'll have your answers. Sidenote: I do find it funny many of the big name schools say they hate early recruiting then they are the first to accept commits.

Need to realize coaches are asking for 19's and 20's and there isn't much anyone can do about it... I know most on this board hates that statement but it's true. I have a '19 so We've been knee deep and aware of this madness of early recruiting. It's pure insanity!

Just sayin...


No, I don't think 17's and 18's have had ample opportunity. Have the SEC, PAC 12, Big 10 and others filled their 17's and 18's? Most of them yes. But there is a MUCH larger list of schools out there that have not. Higher academics, mid majors and everything below that, many of which haven't even touched 18's yet or are just getting started. Flo Softball shows 6 20's and 55 19's verballed, not a huge number.

We have asked the many coaches that have been at our games these past few months and most are still filling '18's and some specific '17 needs. Play the 14's at the 14's venue, the big conferences can see all they want there and the rest of the 1600 + colleges out there can see the age group they are looking for.


Do you think these showcases are driven by smaller schools you refer too... Nope! It's driven by the Power 5 conferences drive this stuff. Those schools keep everyone in business from equipment suppliers, recruiting services, travel coaches, etc. no one advertises or parades I'm going to Whatever U. It's about Oregon, Florida, 'Bama, Mich, OU, UCLA, Wash, FSU, A&M, LSU, Notre Dame, on and on.

That's what drives these showcases in the end and determines who and where the games are played. I think most understand that. That being said, nothing wrong with Whatever U. Most of those schools are by far better academic institutions than the ones I referenced above. Not about that in almost every DD/family's mind when they start this process!
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by BB2830 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:13 pm

I do agree as to who drives the showcases and get that. Not that there aren't a lot of high quality softball programs outside the power 5. My main point of my posts has been that there were teams playing at Harvard Park that weren't part of the 16U division and hadn't done anything special at 14U PGF to justify replacement of some very good teams from established programs with good 2015 PGF performances. That to me seems illogical and unfair. I am not talking about McNee or Explosion or TO, we all know those teams deserved to be there.

More parents should be thinking early on about the opportunity softball may present to their DD's. Getting a quality education that they may not have been able to afford or getting into a school they otherwise would not have been able to. Those next 40 years are soooo much more important and I agree too many are focused on the name of the program or conference, not the long term life opportunity the education will provide.
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by newbie101 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:43 pm

tbjd33 wrote:
BB2830 wrote:
tbjd33 wrote:
BB2830 wrote:Question AI asked was how the hierarchy or politics was not fair or logical right? Guess you need a little further explanation. Didn't seem fair OR logical that several 14U teams would be selected to play up in 16U at the most sought after fields and biggest Fall venue over quality 16U teams that had much better PGF performance in 2015 and prior. Or the 16U teams with majority 14U players that again hadn't had a very good PGF finish and were loaded with 2019 and 2020's over teams that have performed well and have majority players at better recruiting age.

Do 2019's and 2020's verbal this early? Yes, foolishly, but very few. The large pool of opportunity lies with colleges finishing off their 2017's and pushing through their 2018's. Outside the SEC, PAC 12.


Ever think 17's/18's have had ample opportunity for looks over the past 2 or 3 years?

Ever think the showcases are driven by the requests of the major programs? Listen to the coaches being interviewed and you'll have your answers. Sidenote: I do find it funny many of the big name schools say they hate early recruiting then they are the first to accept commits.

Need to realize coaches are asking for 19's and 20's and there isn't much anyone can do about it... I know most on this board hates that statement but it's true. I have a '19 so We've been knee deep and aware of this madness of early recruiting. It's pure insanity!

Just sayin...


No, I don't think 17's and 18's have had ample opportunity. Have the SEC, PAC 12, Big 10 and others filled their 17's and 18's? Most of them yes. But there is a MUCH larger list of schools out there that have not. Higher academics, mid majors and everything below that, many of which haven't even touched 18's yet or are just getting started. Flo Softball shows 6 20's and 55 19's verballed, not a huge number.

We have asked the many coaches that have been at our games these past few months and most are still filling '18's and some specific '17 needs. Play the 14's at the 14's venue, the big conferences can see all they want there and the rest of the 1600 + colleges out there can see the age group they are looking for.


Do you think these showcases are driven by smaller schools you refer too... Nope! It's driven by the Power 5 conferences drive this stuff. Those schools keep everyone in business from equipment suppliers, recruiting services, travel coaches, etc. no one advertises or parades I'm going to Whatever U. It's about Oregon, Florida, 'Bama, Mich, OU, UCLA, Wash, FSU, A&M, LSU, Notre Dame, on and on.

That's what drives these showcases in the end and determines who and where the games are played. I think most understand that. That being said, nothing wrong with Whatever U. Most of those schools are by far better academic institutions than the ones I referenced above. Not about that in almost every DD/family's mind when they start this process!


You are missing the boat completely with the showcases being driven by colleges. The powers at be still cater to the 18u group 1st and fore most even though there is hardly any recruiting in that age group for the last 2 years. The 18u Div. is always at the nice fields and they still stick the younger ages in the weed patches even though that is where the recruiting takes place.
Secondly they take care of their Board members & close friends. 85% of the teams at Harvard Park were either directly or indirectly connected to the Surf City / PGF Board of directors.
TCS cares even less about college recruiting as they have a TD decide who is going to be on what fields even when they do not know half the teams.
If these Organizations want to ever do things right for their patrons they should be based on blind draws and have winners play winners o Sunday
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by Tyler Durden » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:18 am

newbie101 wrote:
85% of the teams at Harvard Park were either directly or indirectly connected to the Surf City / PGF Board of directors. [Prove it]

If these Organizations want to ever do things right for their patrons they should be based on blind draws and have winners play winners o Sunday [Your understanding of Showcase softball is zero]


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