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12U So Cal Qualifier - March 20-22

Questions and discussions involving PGF

by PDad » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:40 pm

rfmnz wrote:Why doesn't PGF try to seed these qualifiers (1-4 at least)

I can only speculate... PGF could "try" to seed teams, but they'd only succeed in generating lots of accusations of preferential treatment. That's why, in SoCal at least, they encourage people to witness the blind draw and even broadcasted it.

I realize your intent is to give the top teams the best chance to qualify, However, from a philosophical standpoint, do they really deserve it? From a purist standpoint, all teams should face the same risk of a tough draw.
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by rfmnz » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:57 am

PDad wrote:I can only speculate... PGF could "try" to seed teams, but they'd only succeed in generating lots of accusations of preferential treatment. That's why, in SoCal at least, they encourage people to witness the blind draw and even broadcasted it.

I realize your intent is to give the top teams the best chance to qualify, However, from a philosophical standpoint, do they really deserve it? From a purist standpoint, all teams should face the same risk of a tough draw.

I am sure there are a lot of reasons why PGF stays away from seeding. I was just speaking on what I saw this last weekend in HB.

I think it not only helps the top teams stay away from each other until the later rounds, it helps a lot of other teams chances too. These teams can get hot and gain momentum and potentially have a better chance at getting past one of the "top 4" teams..
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by tbjd33 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:06 am

rfmnz wrote:
PDad wrote:I can only speculate... PGF could "try" to seed teams, but they'd only succeed in generating lots of accusations of preferential treatment. That's why, in SoCal at least, they encourage people to witness the blind draw and even broadcasted it.

I realize your intent is to give the top teams the best chance to qualify, However, from a philosophical standpoint, do they really deserve it? From a purist standpoint, all teams should face the same risk of a tough draw.

I am sure there are a lot of reasons why PGF stays away from seeding. I was just speaking on what I saw this last weekend in HB.

I think it not only helps the top teams stay away from each other until the later rounds, it helps a lot of other teams chances too. These teams can get hot and gain momentum and potentially have a better chance at getting past one of the "top 4" teams..


The idea of keeping strong teams away from each other is soft. It doesn't matter who or when teams play each other. The better team will win. Now if seeds are established than the assumption is they are earned over time and previous good play. I understand how that is a good thing but just to complicated and way to many complainers to even begin seeding thoughts.

Problem is every damn team, coach, parent or plug them is think they have a chance to win. Well news flash YOU DONT! The Only Cinderella team and I say that very loosely was Chicago Bandits from 2013 16u. Other than that it's been all big names with the big name coaches. Sad but true... If your 12u you have know clue yet, but you'll be watching the SCA v CA or BB v FC or CA v BB or you know!
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by jtat32 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:23 am

tbjd33 wrote: It doesn't matter who or when teams play each other. The better team will win.


I agree with everything you said except "the better team will win". There's a reason that the World Series is seven games.

I realize that I'm taking your quote out of context a bit here - I don't think that your point was to state that this is an absolute truth. People tend to make way too much of one game results, though. The better teams generally get deeper, but individual games are frequently decided on flukey events - flare off the handle, pitcher develops a blister, etc.

I'm certainly not trying to argue that there's something wrong with the system - ultimately, qualifiers are qualifiers and champions are champions, and they deserve that honor (with one possible exception that I can think of).
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by tbjd33 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:30 am

jtat32 wrote:
tbjd33 wrote: It doesn't matter who or when teams play each other. The better team will win.


I agree with everything you said except "the better team will win". There's a reason that the World Series is seven games.

I realize that I'm taking your quote out of context a bit here - I don't think that your point was to state that this is an absolute truth. People tend to make way too much of one game results, though. The better teams generally get deeper, but individual games are frequently decided on flukey events - flare off the handle, pitcher develops a blister, etc.

I'm certainly not trying to argue that there's something wrong with the system - ultimately, qualifiers are qualifiers and champions are champions, and they deserve that honor (with one possible exception that I can think of).


Agreed, but remember we are talking PGF and its a long format tourney. So I feel the best team wins vast majority of time just as in a 7 game series. After pool play and then elimination possible the better coached, trained, deeper and finally more talented team will win. I will remove the "always" cause the game still has to be played but usually that's why the final days have the top teams still fighting it out.

Good stuff...
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by rfmnz » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:52 am

tbjd33 wrote:The idea of keeping strong teams away from each other is soft. It doesn't matter who or when teams play each other. The better team will win. Now if seeds are established than the assumption is they are earned over time and previous good play. I understand how that is a good thing but just to complicated and way to many complainers to even begin seeding thoughts.

Problem is every damn team, coach, parent or plug them is think they have a chance to win. Well news flash YOU DONT! The Only Cinderella team and I say that very loosely was Chicago Bandits from 2013 16u. Other than that it's been all big names with the big name coaches. Sad but true... If your 12u you have know clue yet, but you'll be watching the SCA v CA or BB v FC or CA v BB or you know!

Agree to disagree on the soft part. I understand it would be difficult and there would be complainers, but worth having a discussion.

IDK about "every", I am realistic about my dd's team's potential, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they aren't capable of playing at a higher level and getting past a top team/making it a great game.
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by 59Invicta » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:57 am

The Only Cinderella team and I say that very loosely was Chicago Bandits from 2013 16u


Direct TV Genies from 2014 12U. Perhaps not a Cinderella team, but certainly not the BB or FC or SCA or CA
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by tbjd33 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:19 pm

59Invicta wrote:
The Only Cinderella team and I say that very loosely was Chicago Bandits from 2013 16u


Direct TV Genies from 2014 12U. Perhaps not a Cinderella team, but certainly not the BB or FC or SCA or CA


I'm talking about WINNING not getting there. Bandits beat Mcnee/Myers as the first out of state team to win PGF premier div. Of course the Bandits team is filled with a boat load of talent and continues to kill it in 18G.

Sorry but only good effort and a ata-boy for getting there Genies! Maybe they have one more wish in the lamp.... Ha ha ha!
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by jmo » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:42 pm

tbjd33 wrote:
59Invicta wrote:
The Only Cinderella team and I say that very loosely was Chicago Bandits from 2013 16u


Direct TV Genies from 2014 12U. Perhaps not a Cinderella team, but certainly not the BB or FC or SCA or CA


I'm talking about WINNING not getting there. Bandits beat Mcnee/Myers as the first out of state team to win PGF premier div. Of course the Bandits team is filled with a boat load of talent and continues to kill it in 18G.

Sorry but only good effort and a ata-boy for getting there Genies! Maybe they have one more wish in the lamp.... Ha ha ha!


Atlanta Vipers Loveless won the 14U Premier Division in 2012. First out of state team.
"It is better to have loved and lost than to live with a Psycho the rest of your life."
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by tbjd33 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:58 pm

jmo wrote:
tbjd33 wrote:
59Invicta wrote:
The Only Cinderella team and I say that very loosely was Chicago Bandits from 2013 16u


Direct TV Genies from 2014 12U. Perhaps not a Cinderella team, but certainly not the BB or FC or SCA or CA


I'm talking about WINNING not getting there. Bandits beat Mcnee/Myers as the first out of state team to win PGF premier div. Of course the Bandits team is filled with a boat load of talent and continues to kill it in 18G.

Sorry but only good effort and a ata-boy for getting there Genies! Maybe they have one more wish in the lamp.... Ha ha ha!


Atlanta Vipers Loveless won the 14U Premier Division in 2012. First out of state team.


I stand corrected. My apologies!

Though they are a powerhouse from ATL...
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