PGF - ORDER OF FINISH - 2014

[tbjd33]

ORDER OF FINISH - 12U
1st So Cal Athletics Mercado 7-0
2nd DirecTV Genies Elite 6-1
3rd Cal Breeze 5-2
3rd Firecrackers Thornburg 7-2
5th OC Batbusters Young 4-2
5th Corona Angels Slye 6-2
7th OC Batbusters Stith 4-2
7th OC Batbusters Bracamonte 5-2
9th Birmingham Thunderbolts 3-2
9th LTG Lions 2-2
9th OC Batbusters Williams 2-2
9th Georgia Impact Stewart 5-2
13th OC Batbusters Steele 3-2
13th So Cal Choppers Black 3-2
13th Salinas Storm Jimenez 3-2
13th Epoch 4-2
17th Firecrackers Cerritos 2-2
17th Corona Angels Tyson 2-2
17th Texas Bombers 2-2
17th Beverly Bandits Premier 3-2
17th SA Tapout 3-2
17th Case Batbusters 3-2
17th So Cal 3D 2-2
17th So Cal Breakers Montano 2-2
25th OC Elite Black 2-2
25th Georgia Impact Newland 2-2

I think all the teams played well & I saw quite a few teams that did way better than anyone ever expected. All-in-all, except for the shaved bats - especially in 12U - it was a great tournament. What I don't agree with is some of the placements . I understand it's just the way the brackets came out, but a team that only played 4 games & lost 1/2 of those games, should no way be ranked above a team that played 6 games and only lost 2 - (OCBB Williams & Epoch), or Young getting a 5th with a 4-2 record but Brac getting a 7th with a 5-2 record. I get it, so don't point out to me, there's no need. I totally understand the brackets. I'm just saying I question the way the brackets are made. If there are 54 teams, why do you need to give sooooo many 1st round bye, you only really need to give 2, so only 2 teams should have a better standing than their records show. I just think it's misleading. i know some of those teams that have a 3-2 record that you place in 17th place, played more games than teams you have placed in 9th.

I get it, I'm just pointing out that a 2-2 finish gets 25th or 9th - only depending on how many byes they draw????

If a team doesn't win the tourney does it honestly matter where they place? If you want to place (not rank cause thats a different issue) higher then win more games. Period.

You say you understand the bracket, but I disagree If you complain about number of wins. In a double elim tourney if you loose early that team will play a heck of a lot more games then a team that wins. Check out 18G final standing. Bandits had more wins then everyone. Do they deserve the trophy or should CA be pushed down to 3rd?

Don't be angry with were you placed go get better and do better next year.

[fastpitchdad05]

ORDER OF FINISH - 12U
1st So Cal Athletics Mercado 7-0
2nd DirecTV Genies Elite 6-1
3rd Cal Breeze 5-2
3rd Firecrackers Thornburg 7-2
5th OC Batbusters Young 4-2
5th Corona Angels Slye 6-2
7th OC Batbusters Stith 4-2
7th OC Batbusters Bracamonte 5-2
9th Birmingham Thunderbolts 3-2
9th LTG Lions 2-2
9th OC Batbusters Williams 2-2
9th Georgia Impact Stewart 5-2
13th OC Batbusters Steele 3-2
13th So Cal Choppers Black 3-2
13th Salinas Storm Jimenez 3-2
13th Epoch 4-2
17th Firecrackers Cerritos 2-2
17th Corona Angels Tyson 2-2
17th Texas Bombers 2-2
17th Beverly Bandits Premier 3-2
17th SA Tapout 3-2
17th Case Batbusters 3-2
17th So Cal 3D 2-2
17th So Cal Breakers Montano 2-2
25th OC Elite Black 2-2
25th Georgia Impact Newland 2-2

I think all the teams played well & I saw quite a few teams that did way better than anyone ever expected. All-in-all, except for the shaved bats - especially in 12U - it was a great tournament. What I don't agree with is some of the placements . I understand it's just the way the brackets came out, but a team that only played 4 games & lost 1/2 of those games, should no way be ranked above a team that played 6 games and only lost 2 - (OCBB Williams & Epoch), or Young getting a 5th with a 4-2 record but Brac getting a 7th with a 5-2 record. I get it, so don't point out to me, there's no need. I totally understand the brackets. I'm just saying I question the way the brackets are made. If there are 54 teams, why do you need to give sooooo many 1st round bye, you only really need to give 2, so only 2 teams should have a better standing than their records show. I just think it's misleading. i know some of those teams that have a 3-2 record that you place in 17th place, played more games than teams you have placed in 9th.

I get it, I'm just pointing out that a 2-2 finish gets 25th or 9th - only depending on how many byes they draw????

If a team doesn't win the tourney does it honestly matter where they place? If you want to place (not rank cause thats a different issue) higher then win more games. Period.

You say you understand the bracket, but I disagree If you complain about number of wins. In a double elim tourney if you loose early that team will play a heck of a lot more games then a team that wins. Check out 18G final standing. Bandits had more wins then everyone. Do they deserve the trophy or should CA be pushed down to 3rd?

Don't be angry with were you placed go get better and do better next year.

Agreed. If you lose early you will place lower sometimes even if you have a better record. It's just the nature of bracket play and has little to do with byes.

And as tjbd33 sorta said, "If you're not 1st you might as well be 231st!"

[PDad]

I think all the teams played well & I saw quite a few teams that did way better than anyone ever expected. All-in-all, except for the shaved bats - especially in 12U - it was a great tournament. What I don't agree with is some of the placements . I understand it's just the way the brackets came out, but a team that only played 4 games & lost 1/2 of those games, should no way be ranked above a team that played 6 games and only lost 2 - (OCBB Williams & Epoch), or Young getting a 5th with a 4-2 record but Brac getting a 7th with a 5-2 record. I get it, so don't point out to me, there's no need. I totally understand the brackets. I'm just saying I question the way the brackets are made. If there are 54 teams, why do you need to give sooooo many 1st round bye, you only really need to give 2, so only 2 teams should have a better standing than their records show. I just think it's misleading. i know some of those teams that have a 3-2 record that you place in 17th place, played more games than teams you have placed in 9th.

I get it, I'm just pointing out that a 2-2 finish gets 25th or 9th - only depending on how many byes they draw????

You obviously don't get it.
- There were 56 teams, not 54.
- The number of byes is dictated by the number of teams vs a full bracket, not by simply getting to an even number. There were 28 teams in each bracket, so there were 4 less teams than a full bracket of 32. Hence, there were 8 byes in total.
- As others have posted, the variances in records is due more to the number of games played in the losers bracket than byes.
- It's an elimination tournament, not a round robin or a league. Hence, bracket finish overshadows W-L record.

[AlwaysImprove]

Byes always give a sense that some got further through luck of the draw. Even more so when you get like a 120 teams then like 12 teams get a bye, which is a huge advantage.

This is why I would like to see PGF keep their bracket size in Premier at 64 teams. The bracket works out. Plus that put pressure on the qualifying system where it should be.

[jonriv]

Wins and losses in bracket play are always secondary to where you actually place in the bracket(although there is nothing better than a great loser's bracket run IMO). I agree that first is all that really matters

I also like the strong finish of a northeast team(ri thunder). Perhaps more teams from this area will try to qualify and make the trip(or be invited)

[schoolfirst]

These lists say a lot about Southern California Softball.

Yes, what it says is that a tournament in SoCal that draws mainly SoCal teams should be dominated by SoCal teams. Or did you have another point?

[Dugout Dad]

These lists say a lot about Southern California Softball.

Yes, what it says is that a tournament in SoCal that draws mainly SoCal teams should be dominated by SoCal teams. Or did you have another point?

It means that they these SoCal teams didn't have to travel to Nowhere, USA to play an ASA final dominated by SoCal teams.

[jmo]

These lists say a lot about Southern California Softball.

Yes, what it says is that a tournament in SoCal that draws mainly SoCal teams should be dominated by SoCal teams. Or did you have another point?

18 Premier - 72 teams
48 out of state teams
6 Nor Cal teams
54/72 non So Cal teams

16 Premier - 68 teams
44 out of state teams
8 Nor Cal Teams
52/68 non So Cal Teams

14 Premier - 64 teams
34 out of state teams
8 Nor Cal Teams
42/64 Non So Cal teams

Pretty good diversity from across the country.

[fastpitchdad05]

These lists say a lot about Southern California Softball.

Yes, what it says is that a tournament in SoCal that draws mainly SoCal teams should be dominated by SoCal teams. Or did you have another point?

18 Premier - 72 teams
48 out of state teams
6 Nor Cal teams
54/72 non So Cal teams

16 Premier - 68 teams
44 out of state teams
8 Nor Cal Teams
52/68 non So Cal Teams

14 Premier - 64 teams
34 out of state teams
8 Nor Cal Teams
42/64 Non So Cal teams

Pretty good diversity from across the country.

Looks like schoolfirst should have done his homework!

[Pale Rider]

As far as PGF vs ASA...
PGF has already won...

As far as So Cal Dominance...Sure THIS year So Cal teams won each age group I think...but wasn't like that last year...
May not be next year...
Cowgirl up...You coming to play aint ya?

As far the location...ONLY difference is getting there...a plane ticket costs $500 pretty much....for a 200 mile flight or a 2000 mile flight...same thing for rental cars...
I DO think they need to expand the stay to play thing to some more affordable type places...Or come up with a lower 'fine'
Maybe team up with VRBO.com...
Food choices were quite comparable to everywhere USA...PLUS I didnt feel the need to have my hand ON the 1911 all the time

Heard some bad stories about the VA ASA accommodations...
I dont have to download any apps to keep safe at Surf City
, plus I dont have to continually search for everything...I can navigate pretty well there now...

Location...Lets see...mid 70s-80's...great breeze...several rain outs though...WAIT...NO RAIN OUTS

...well one place it did but it wasnt Mother Nature rain anyway...and didn't affect play