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by AlwaysImprove » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:09 am

Hurricane wrote:Come on AlwaysImprove. Holy Cow. I do not have an agenda. Where did you get that from?

Please don't change the subject and don't shoot the messenger. Please read carefully what I had written before you reply with your own agenda.

I'm just trying get information on a variety of topics. Topics that SEEM to be taboo around here. Yet, you and others seem annoyed when I'm lifting up the carpet. Is there dirt under there?

Chillax big guy. We're discussing a game played by children. Unfortunately, for some, it's become a big money machine and the girls are being left behind in the discussions.

Happy Labor Day! Let the Fall Season begin!!

Nope. No dirt under there. You did not answer my questions. Who was name calling? Why should a moderator feel the least bit of responsibility to look things up for you to prove there is no dirt?
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by AlwaysImprove » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:16 am

Battle wrote:
exD1dad wrote:Hey battle why don't you mention Louisiana Voodoo's performance in ASA compared to their 17th place finish at Platinum, oh thats right, it would destroy your entire premise :D :D :D

Well maybe....If it was the same team! :lol: :lol: :lol:

At ASA Nats...I believe the team that played in PGF played their 2nd game against a team that qualified for PGF and ASA. That team went 2 and out.

AI doesn't want you to fall in the mud with me because you might see truth behind this nonsense. That's fairly evident with his comparison between a pool to seed with a single elimination showcase to a National. Then, just in case you didn't notice, he never mentioned ASA as teams fielding their best. All this coming from a guy that actually believes umpires run ASA softball. Sure they have their perks but PGF is no different. Why do you think you have to stay at those high priced hotels at PGF and if you don't, you pay out the ass?
PGF is a little better in 18s because of the Cali teams but nothing near what is projected here on HB.
OK...I'm done poking the bad news bears...ahum...I mean PGFers. :D

Hope all of you had a safe holiday.
Battle

Don't want anyone falling into the mud, because your approach was so whackamole it could not possibly be the start of any reasonable analysis. Taking random team names, finding teams with same name that showed up with ASA or TCS, assuming those are the same teams, then drawing all sorts of conclusions. People are free to take any approach they want, if it were me, I would take one with a bit more common sense.
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by exD1dad » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:45 am

Battle, according to a Voodoo parent 8 of their starters (in their 1st game) @ PGF were verbaled, 7 of those are now in college, they won 2-1 against a team that left ALL their verballed players back east & had 1 starter with less than 3 months of travel experience
"It's not giving up if you discover you've been chasing the wrong destiny" -Morley LA street artist who posted this on Melrose Avenue in Jan '14
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by AlwaysImprove » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:02 am

This is going to be easy. Attached is the roster, including school they were recruited and order which they were recruited.
You will see from the file. All 22 kids recruited. UA, UW, OSU, OU, UF, UNC, UVA, UM, Fresno. Highly recruited bunch of kids.

If you send me a link to rosters for ASA, I can do the cross reference for you.
Attachments
OC BatBusters.xlsx
(4.48 KiB) Downloaded 457 times
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by Pale Rider » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:29 am

Why the argument between ASA and PGF...
Well...if you cant see that...send me $5000.00 and I'll explain it...

ASA is a nationwide body who is seeing its profit margin slip...many factors have caused this...to include facilities based on simply a bidding procedure for their National events...what some call ridiculous and expensive horsechit requirements...plus some other factors, not limited to quality of play vs quantity of teams...which equals Mo' Money...I think its a good org...Wanna play, Come get you some...

PGF was started because the west Coast teams were tired of having to travel all Gods creation, staying and playing in the 'bidding process' assigned areas on facilities which had a half hearted approach to play...and wind up playing each other...3000 miles from home...
(That applies to several sanctioning bodies...fields that suck, SP fields, stuck on baseball fields...Making fields simply to accommodate huge numbers of teams (Mo' Money) with no regard what you're making those kids play on...USSSA making kids play in the Hugnormous Baseball stadium is a good example...infield on grass...outfield on dirt...screens all over the place...laughable...it really is, and then said Org.s claim they are the best...beating their chests all the way to bank...

PGFs approach, while yes it makes money is to limit the teams who play based on several factors...To include quality of play...Plus, its about creating the best possible atmosphere for college coaches to come and get the most bang for their buck, in a great place....

I will say we've played at PGF and ASA qualifiers on shoddy fields with the same terrible local umps...Home Cookin' like you wouldn't believe...and I truly hope each organization fixes that...I know it'd be expensive and a tremendous feat...But it lessens the quality of the play when you fight the fields and umps...One in Houston area was probably the worst I've ever been around...as far as a qualifier...NSA was worst Nat thing we did...

One way to look at it...virtually every kid who plays TB also plays HS ball...(I know some don't, wished mine didn't)...So therefore virtually every kid a College Coach wants to see is playing...But that Coach cant go see every HS game, talk to every HS coach...
Think of it as 'concentrating' a product...whose concentration is the best?...
Who is winning this perceived battle?
Whats the parameters?...Money in the bank...% of kids recruited? Overall quality of play?....
???? I will say I've never seen PGF send out a plea for teams who didn't qualify to send a check and come play to fill their tourney...Wanna play?...Come get you some...

How about this...and I don't care who wins...Top 4 teams in each Nat Championship meet...at ASA Stadium in OKC...ASA pays for 100% of their Champs expenses, all 4 teams...PGF does the same...Rosters are absolutely frozen...8 team bracket...
Just like WCWS...Fri, Sat Champ game Sunday...Losing org reimburses winners expenses... 8-)
Whose in?
(not that its gonna happen)
AKA "Thread Killer"

"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you."
Edward "Blackbeard" Teach
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by Hurricane » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:12 am

I appreciate the communication, guys. Yes, I guess I am just lazy to search all the info. I figured someone here must know the history.

My apologies if I had offended anyone's intelligence.
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by jonriv » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:26 am

Spazsdad wrote:
One way to look at it...virtually every kid who plays TB also plays HS ball...(I know some don't, wished mine didn't)...So therefore virtually every kid a College Coach wants to see is playing...But that Coach cant go see every HS game, talk to every HS coach


It works for football. I'm just sayin...


Big difference. Football has fewer games and bigger staffs. Most major hs football programs also have massive video resources of their players. College football teams have bigger budgets and more scouts. For college coaches, the hs football game is their only option. It is much easier for the college softball coach to watch tab tournament or showcase. They can travel to one place on their limited travel budget and see a concentration of talented players
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by AlwaysImprove » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:05 pm

Football largely uses HUDL. HS football teams post their video onto HUDL. They can then provide access to college coaches. This has allowed football to do ton's more recruiting, to be way more effective in their use of their staff and resources.

Softball recruiting seems to be very scatter shot and somewhat hit or miss. If I were a college coach I would not spend a single second at a showcase tournament. I would only attend games where the game mattered.
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by PDad » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:12 pm

Pale Rider wrote:I will say I've never seen PGF send out a plea for teams who didn't qualify to send a check and come play to fill their tourney...Wanna play?...Come get you some...

:? PGF offers at-large berths after the qualifiers are done - your DD's team received one in 2013.

PGF has already reset the national berth page on their website for 2015, so I can't direct you to 2014's numbers. Here are the numbers I collected from it in July.

Premier at-large berths are primarily extended to teams with a Platinum berth - 18U (2), 16U (7), 14U (10) and 12U (15).

Platinum extends a lot more at-large berths: 18U (27), 16U (19) and 14U (27).
(JMHO - PGF should award more Platinum berths at qualifiers since some teams will qualify for Premier afterward.)

* Updated # at-large berths based on # teams that played.
Last edited by PDad on Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by jonriv » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:04 pm

The PGF vs ASA argument is getting old, but here's my $.02 anyway :D

My DD has nnvere been in a PGF or ASA national-so there I have no dog in this fight. For full disclosure my DD has played in a total of 2 ASA tournment in her career.

I have to give a lot of credit to the PGF guys. They did not like what was going one, made their grievences known, did not like the answer and started their own. They have produced an outstanding product that attracts the top teams and coaches. Is ASA hurting?- probably not Profit margin hurt?(they are a non-profit) ASA is still a great organization that in many ways is responsible for what softball is today-period That fact that many teams are playing PGF to me just means it opens more opportunities to play at a national level- that has got to be good for the sport. Hey, some of the teams at ASA in the first time might use that as a springboard to try PGF. In fact, while others bemoan the expansion of softball and that there are "too many teams" I disagree. I have seen a noticable pick-up in the quality of play and the number of players at both th HS play in my area(Connecticut) and in DIII college softball here in the Northeast where my daughter plays. PGF has raised the bar and you know see other organizations moving to improve their products and others trying to fill the gaps. I think it is all great!
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