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Questions and discussions involving PGF

by Pale Rider » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:38 pm

PDad wrote:
:? PGF offers at-large berths after the qualifiers are done - your DD's team received one in 2013.



True...true...not saying there werent 'caveats'...But I dont see PGF taking 20+ teams checks just to fill a bracket...And if we were at FULL Combat manning without injuries we could have done a LOT better...plus some other issues ...but that's making excuses, effective range of an excuse is 0 meters...
Water under the bridge...
I dont dislike ASA...Its a great assn...question is, who is the 'best'
Again...define 'best'?

But, a certain other Org was making calls ad nauseum to fill the places that folks who had won berths ..and werent coming...for last 3 years....also I know of a team that got a berth at that orgs Gold tourney, this year...and was 0-4 at that tourney...
All I'm saying is, when you make it to the point, all you have to do is 'send a check' the competition level falls off dramatically...Keep in mind, we dont have a large ASA or PGF following per sei...Up to the 12u level its USFA by a landslide, but due to the fact its pay and play, comp level falls off at 14U cause recruiting is non existent there...USFA is a good org, but its focus is on mass team numbers....

Spazsdad....You ever been to a HS game here? :?
Your part of the continent, Im sure some coaches do come...Be a smart move...but here, if a JUCO coach shows up its like Elvis has reappeared....with Krispy Kremes for everybody...the Chocolate Cake ones....
But we do have college scouts who come to games for football...and an occasional Coach...but remember they have limited days they can do that...and money is an issue for a softball coach...But since, for now, there's no such thing as PGF or ASA football Travel ball...(yet) they sorta gotta be at HS games...
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by PDad » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:47 pm

Pale Rider wrote:
PDad wrote: :? PGF offers at-large berths after the qualifiers are done - your DD's team received one in 2013.

True...true...not saying there werent 'caveats'...But I dont see PGF taking 20+ teams checks just to fill a bracket...

Unbelievable response considering my post - in the portion you omitted - showed PGF took checks from 20+ teams in Platinum age groups to fill brackets. :roll: PGF does it for the same reason$ as ASA hosts.

Every team should evaluate which is best for them regardless of which is the "best of the best."
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by Pale Rider » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:35 pm

PDad wrote:
Premier at-large berths are primarily extended to teams with a Platinum berth - 18U (2), 16U (7), 14U (10) and 12U (15).

Platinum extends a lot more at-large berths: 18U (27), 16U (19) and 14U (27).


* Updated # at-large berths based on # teams that played.


For agreeing with you to an extent...
I am pretty sure the Platinum teams that are extended those are 'asked' to play based on ability to play, vs ability to pay....
But also wheres it written on how many ASA allows / invites upfront, not prodding, just asking...?
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by AlwaysImprove » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:30 pm

Giving at-large berths at the platinum level makes sense. No one ever complained about ASA handing out berths at B, or 18A.

It was when the A tournaments were expanding from 64 to 100 to 120 to 140 with loads of at-large berths. It made the whole tournament run sideways. It became only about your ability to draw. It was pretty regular that the winner would the one that was lucky enough to draw 3 easy teams, when their main competitor would draw competition.
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by PDad » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:58 pm

Pale Rider wrote:
PDad wrote: Premier at-large berths are primarily extended to teams with a Platinum berth - 18U (2), 16U (7), 14U (10) and 12U (15).

Platinum extends a lot more at-large berths: 18U (27), 16U (19) and 14U (27).

* Updated # at-large berths based on # teams that played.

For agreeing with you to an extent...
I am pretty sure the Platinum teams that are extended those are 'asked' to play based on ability to play, vs ability to pay....

I believe PGF gives careful consideration when doling out at-large berths, however there are no formal regulations like ASA has for their fill-in berths. "Ability to pay" is a factor for both as they're looking for teams that are able and willing to spend the money to attend. PGF can extend them to anyone. ASA limits hosts to teams that are eligible based on objective performance standards in qualifiers.

But also wheres it written on how many ASA allows / invites upfront, not prodding, just asking...?

ASA Code only allows hosts two (2) berths that are akin to PGF's invites. All other ASA berths are regulated based on performance in previous year's national or that year's qualifiers.
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by PDad » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:33 pm

AlwaysImprove wrote:Giving at-large berths at the platinum level makes sense. No one ever complained about ASA handing out berths at B, or 18A.

It was when the A tournaments were expanding from 64 to 100 to 120 to 140 with loads of at-large berths. It made the whole tournament run sideways. It became only about your ability to draw. It was pretty regular that the winner would the one that was lucky enough to draw 3 easy teams, when their main competitor would draw competition.

The term "at-large berth" has completely different meanings between ASA and PGF.

For ASA, at-large berths are the ones allocated to local associations based on prior year's registrations. Prior to 2009, SoCal ASA only got 3 berths, which led to teams chasing berths around the country at NQ's. ASA expanded the at-large berths in 2009, but it mainly affected the larger associations - SoCal ASA went from 3 to 12 and it resulted in most teams qualifying at State and not having to chase a berth. Once upon a time, I reviewed the number of teams at ASA Nat's from 2004-2009 for 10U-16U and was surprised the increase wasn't as big as I expected in 2009 - only around 10%. There were some fluctuations year-to-year (location?) and the main pattern was the number of teams increased significantly by age group from 10U to 16U.

For PGF, at-large berths are the ones handed out after the qualifiers. They are akin to ASA's fill-in berths.
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by AlwaysImprove » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:38 pm

PDad wrote:
Pale Rider wrote:
PDad wrote: Premier at-large berths are primarily extended to teams with a Platinum berth - 18U (2), 16U (7), 14U (10) and 12U (15).

Platinum extends a lot more at-large berths: 18U (27), 16U (19) and 14U (27).

* Updated # at-large berths based on # teams that played.

For agreeing with you to an extent...
I am pretty sure the Platinum teams that are extended those are 'asked' to play based on ability to play, vs ability to pay....

I believe PGF gives careful consideration when doling out at-large berths, however there are no formal regulations like ASA has for their fill-in berths. "Ability to pay" is a factor for both as they're looking for teams that are able and willing to spend the money to attend. PGF can extend them to anyone. ASA limits hosts to teams that are eligible based on objective performance standards in qualifiers.

But also wheres it written on how many ASA allows / invites upfront, not prodding, just asking...?

ASA Code only allows hosts two (2) berths that are akin to PGF's invites. All other ASA berths are regulated based on performance in previous year's national or that year's qualifiers.

But, ASA does not limit the number of teams in the tournament. And it was common when ASA was the deal, for a team to play in RNQ that had 2 berths, get 5th place, and get a call from ASA congratulating them on winning a berth.

PGF for the most part does a better overall job of focusing their tournament on the most competitive field they can assemble. ASA does have rules and regs, but it seems often those rules either flat out work against constructing a competitive tournament, or they become a convenient excuse for ASA decisions that do not seem to aim towards having a competitive tournament.
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by jonriv » Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:29 am

Does anyone else see the irony for teams scrambling around the country so they can qualify for the "local" PGF national championship because they didn't want to travel
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by AlwaysImprove » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:32 am

jonriv wrote:Does anyone else see the irony for teams scrambling around the country so they can qualify for the "local" PGF national championship because they didn't want to travel

I never heard from any California teams that it was "about" travelling. For me, the concept of booking for 30 person trip to Johnson City or Midland last minute was more painful than a license renewal in the communist run Seattle Washington DMV.

The request to ASA was to just consider holding in some parts of the country

It does seem to make sense to organize things so people travel a bit less. Of course, that is going to be offset by the desire to spread berths to areas of the country. Moving those berths to east coast, creates an opportunity for a CA team to travel to that qualifier and not have to face some of the teams they would have to beat in a CA qualifier.
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by jonriv » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:07 am

I just mention it because so many posters seem to bring how they don't want to travel and like the idea the tournament ins nearby in California. I just enjoy irony :D
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