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PGF At large berth - Premier/Platinum

Questions and discussions involving PGF

by NW-COACH 98 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:18 pm

I would think pool play will be played more like a showcase since win or lose has nothing to do with who you will play in bracket !! Will the score really matter in "pool play" ?
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by tbjd33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:48 pm

Battle wrote:
tbjd33 wrote: Take a look at the pool play this coming year. There will be several mercy rule wins in many pool play games. That's my argument. If you truly want a "Premier" national champion then shrink the field to 48 team tourney (I can even argue it needs to be 32 teams).

I'm not understanding what you are trying to accomplish by doing that. Are you trying to make it a 3 or 4 day national? Are you still going to be okay with it if your team doesn't make it?


Not trying to change anything... I feel a more competitive tourney would be a great thing to see.

It is extremely easy to have a week long national with 32 or 48 teams. Pools of 6 with 5 pool play games in your pool and a misc game from another pool. That's six games over three days then run a double elim over the next three days. Oh don't forget about the first day festivities, concerts, showcase or whatever. Everyone is happy and makes $$$.

Hey if my DD's team doesn't make it then so be it. There is only one trophy and the best team gets it. Our goal as a team is the trophy, but we realize placing our DD's is priority and is best for their future. As I've said before, the best coaching and talent equals winning... So I'm not worried!
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by AlwaysImprove » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:06 pm

As nw-98 pointed out. Pool play purposely does not matter. So it is very much so a showcase.

The big orgs, SoCal A's, Firecrackers, Angels etc are effectively two teams. About 9 players that can definitely make a run for the end. And another 9 that are basically this years 'recruiting' team, and the core of next years team. So you even see those teams end up on the down side of lopsided scores during pool play.

Back in some of the ASA tournaments when they were having 150+ teams the downside of having so many bad teams was that some good teams could draw a 3 or 4 team pass cause their part of the bracket was not competitive. They may not even throw their number one until the fourth round.

While in other parts of the bracket you have a two top 5's unlucky enough to draw each other, in the first round. Now one of the top 5's is in the loosers bracket, wading through all the crap. Yeah if they are good enough they should be good enough. But slogging through never ending fresh teams falling out of the winners bracket, even though you are way better talent wise, your team is going to tire, falter and loose to a much less competitive team.

Add in the likely chance that a rain delay would make the whole thing fall to a single elim, and you were at a point where most years it was impossible to even come close to determining who was the better team in the country.

While there are some not so competitive teams in a field of 64, it really is not enough to make the brackets funky. It would be an interesting exercise. Rank the teams before the tournament starts, a rough ranking should be fine. Then see how they do once bracket play starts.
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by 59Invicta » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:07 pm

Seems like everyone is just throwing Premier and Platinum together like it's all one. Why is that?

And it seems like Platinum at large berths should have gone to teams that did well at qualifiers but just didn't quite get it done. Unfortunately, that's not what I'm seeing. I see berths going to teams that were out in 2 or 3 games - sometimes at more than one qualifier.
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by tbjd33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:53 pm

59Invicta wrote:Seems like everyone is just throwing Premier and Platinum together like it's all one. Why is that?

And it seems like Platinum at large berths should have gone to teams that did well at qualifiers but just didn't quite get it done. Unfortunately, that's not what I'm seeing. I see berths going to teams that were out in 2 or 3 games - sometimes at more than one qualifier.


Not lumping together, just can't talk about one without the other.

I agree it looks like births are passed out. I'm advocating shrinking the field in Premier leaving the remaining to fight in Platinum. I hate the pool play at Premier it's a waste of time. I'd like to see every game matter. I realize this isn't going to change, but it's interesting dialogue.
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by Battle » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:12 pm

tbjd33 wrote:I agree it looks like births are passed out. I'm advocating shrinking the field in Premier leaving the remaining to fight in Platinum. I hate the pool play at Premier it's a waste of time. I'd like to see every game matter. I realize this isn't going to change, but it's interesting dialogue.

I agree. I've always hated the pool play. This has been one of the main gripes with ASA over the years. PGF has adopted just about everything from ASA except the rule set and I can't believe they kept pool play.

BTW, before all hell breaks loose on you here...It's berths...not births. Not that it really matters... :D
We herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!
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by tbjd33 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:14 am

Battle wrote:
tbjd33 wrote:I agree it looks like births are passed out. I'm advocating shrinking the field in Premier leaving the remaining to fight in Platinum. I hate the pool play at Premier it's a waste of time. I'd like to see every game matter. I realize this isn't going to change, but it's interesting dialogue.

I agree. I've always hated the pool play. This has been one of the main gripes with ASA over the years. PGF has adopted just about everything from ASA except the rule set and I can't believe they kept pool play.

BTW, before all hell breaks loose on you here...It's berths...not births. Not that it really matters... :D


Damn auto correct... LOL!
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by AlwaysImprove » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:56 am

Battle wrote:
tbjd33 wrote:I agree it looks like births are passed out. I'm advocating shrinking the field in Premier leaving the remaining to fight in Platinum. I hate the pool play at Premier it's a waste of time. I'd like to see every game matter. I realize this isn't going to change, but it's interesting dialogue.

I agree. I've always hated the pool play. This has been one of the main gripes with ASA over the years. PGF has adopted just about everything from ASA except the rule set and I can't believe they kept pool play.

BTW, before all hell breaks loose on you here...It's berths...not births. Not that it really matters... :D

They have not had a single tournament in Johnson City or Midland.
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by jonriv » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:11 am

If not used for seeding, I assume that pool play is used to fulfill minimum games to make the trip worth it?
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by AlwaysImprove » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:04 am

For 18's, 16' and 14's at PGF pool play is for showcasing. I think both by design and how it ends up working.

There will always be friction between making pool play count and having it not count. Having it not count allows some of the non-starters a chance to play in front of numerous college coaches. So it makes the trip worth it to them. Without the showcasing, the incentive for being a sub on a larger team would drop to zero.
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