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PGF At large berth - Premier/Platinum

Questions and discussions involving PGF

by SeeBallHitBall » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:49 pm

I just checked out the PGF website and I had noticed the various returnees, invites and qualifiers but I was very surprised to see the numerous "at larges" handed out in the various Premier and Platinum divisions.

I can understand the larger number of at large berths in Platinum as they try to build up that version but even they seem excessive. 14 and 18 platinum seem to have 20-30 at larges that have been handed out.

Qualifying seems to a little less prestigious with all the at-larges handed like candy. The fall back in seems to be to align yourself to a recognized program. Of course, if I am PGF and I can get $1500 per entry (or whatever it is), the more the merrier.
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by fontana10! » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:23 am

Our team received their berth the old fashion way, but with that said im fine with at large berths. Some of the teams I've seen get them this year are very good. A lot depends on the draw unless your team is just that good. What amazes me is the teams who were given berths that don't even have a winning record in the qualifiers. This is supposedly a prestigious tournament. If a team has a .500 winning percentage or below, they definitely shouldn't be invited in my opinion.
Last edited by fontana10! on Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by NW-COACH 98 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:19 am

I think PGF BOD did their homework when selecting at large births!! Yes the old fashion way is always the best!! And yes my DD team received a at large birth only after they won a platium birth first. Based on wins etc... I feel the teams selected are worthy picks and well deserving of ia nvite. Both brackets will be competitive !!
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by tbjd33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:27 am

NW-COACH 98 wrote:I think PGF BOD did their homework when selecting at large births!! Yes the old fashion way is always the best!! And yes my DD team received a at large birth only after they won a platium birth first. Based on wins etc... I feel the teams selected are worthy picks and well deserving of ia nvite. Both brackets will be competitive !!


One third of the field is championship caliber... One third has a punchers chance... The bottom third have no chance and should be placed in Platinum level. The field is way to large and there just isn't enough talent to go around and have that number of teams compete for the title. With 62 (14u) and 64(16u) teams respectively you can easily drop 20 plus teams and the tourney would be competitive from top to bottom.

Platinum was an excellent idea more teams should be placed there. My belief if a team doesn't have a legit returning birth and/or earn a birth through a qualifier they shouldn't play in Premier division.
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by NW-COACH 98 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:05 pm

I think more then you think have a punchers chance!! Seen it many times. Let's take all the so called up-sets in last years tournament/s. I think some teams get over looked. I would be courious to see your top third, punchers chance third and the teams you feel have no buss being there.
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by tbjd33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:31 pm

NW-COACH 98 wrote:I think more then you think have a punchers chance!! Seen it many times. Let's take all the so called up-sets in last years tournament/s. I think some teams get over looked. I would be courious to see your top third, punchers chance third and the teams you feel have no buss being there.


I don't think anyone person knows each 33%, but what I can tell you is the larger the group the more the bottom 33% grows. We have our fair share of National tournament trophies collecting dust and from my well experienced POV my numbers are true.

Understand there are two truths in sports... First is anyone can be beaten on any given day. We see this in all sorts of sports especially travel ball. Teams loose pool play, small tourneys, friendlies, or whatever. Those are the exceptions the lower 66% live by and believe in. That's the hope that makes sports interesting and why we compete. THE CHANCE!!

Now here is the truth... Champions win the big games... There is a reason large organizations dominate LONG FORMAT NATIONAL TOURNAMENTS. There is a distinction between the two. It takes planning/coaching strategy(most travel teams are coached by good 'Ol daddy and his buddy unfortunately!), talent(large orgs develope this and when they cant it flocks to them!), the ever important depth(large orgs usually have two or three #1 pitchers, tons of speed, many power bats, multiple coaches charting, encouraging, scouting and other organizational support).

So think all you want the field of 64ish teams are even... Just not the case!
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by AlwaysImprove » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:56 pm

64 seems like the right number for the tournament. Fewer than that, and you will not get all the teams in the country that are competitive. More than that and seems that some of the draws are pretty watered down.

I think with a few of the punchers chance teams deciding that taking a real shot at winning ASA makes more sense than a punchers chance at PGF.

I think the field for many many years has broken out 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3, as you describe. Although that bottom 1/3 does not stand a chance of winning you will be surprised at how many of them finish top 20.

As PGF continues to gain in popularity, there is a real chance to continue to deepen the qualifying paths. This would be the best way to ensure the most competitive tournament. This would give teams a chance to win a tournament in order for the right to play in a qualifier. That qualifiers can be kept reasonably small (64 teams) and competition decides who has a chance to win a berth.

Could easily start small. For instance SoCAl and Vegas qualifier had good attendance. So next year you will need to earn a berth to play in either of those qualifiers. Couple weekends you have a couple of qualifiers. Top 8 teams get berths to SoCal or Vegas.
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by tbjd33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:39 pm

AlwaysImprove wrote:64 seems like the right number for the tournament. Fewer than that, and you will not get all the teams in the country that are competitive. More than that and seems that some of the draws are pretty watered down.

I think with a few of the punchers chance teams deciding that taking a real shot at winning ASA makes more sense than a punchers chance at PGF.

I think the field for many many years has broken out 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3, as you describe. Although that bottom 1/3 does not stand a chance of winning you will be surprised at how many of them finish top 20.

As PGF continues to gain in popularity, there is a real chance to continue to deepen the qualifying paths. This would be the best way to ensure the most competitive tournament. This would give teams a chance to win a tournament in order for the right to play in a qualifier. That qualifiers can be kept reasonably small (64 teams) and competition decides who has a chance to win a berth.

Could easily start small. For instance SoCAl and Vegas qualifier had good attendance. So next year you will need to earn a berth to play in either of those qualifiers. Couple weekends you have a couple of qualifiers. Top 8 teams get berths to SoCal or Vegas.


Take a look at the pool play this coming year. There will be several mercy rule wins in many pool play games. That's my argument. If you truly want a "Premier" national champion then shrink the field to 48 team tourney (I can even argue it needs to be 32 teams).

We all know that won't happen though so we'll have to work with what we have. On that note, I do like the idea Platinum division and it should be expanded. Something wrong with more teams in the Premier event then Platinum in my opinion.
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by Slappydad » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:51 pm

I'm curious to know who you think these bottom 1/3 teams are? Or how about the top 1/3 and we can go from there.
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by Battle » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:04 pm

tbjd33 wrote: Take a look at the pool play this coming year. There will be several mercy rule wins in many pool play games. That's my argument. If you truly want a "Premier" national champion then shrink the field to 48 team tourney (I can even argue it needs to be 32 teams).

I'm not understanding what you are trying to accomplish by doing that. Are you trying to make it a 3 or 4 day national? Are you still going to be okay with it if your team doesn't make it?
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