Spreading the Word on PGF

[TexasYellowBall]

Why do you think that PGF needs to get teams from all other areas, such as the NE, to use your examples?
Those same teams that play pony, nsa, or whatever never traveled to Nationals anyway. Why would they start now?
Just because you draw from all parts of the country does not make the tournament better, just more "diverse"

Diversity is needed. . .

[jonriv]

Why? Just to say they have teams from all over the country? Then they can have a bloated, watered down field just like ASA does.

Not looking to bloat or water-down anything- my original post was targeted towards the qualifiers- any team would still have to qualify and "earn" their way in. I just feel that there are very good teams that have not participated(for what ever reason) and that a system that that draws from a bigger pool has the chance to be that much better. They should never enlarge the tournament, but a healthy number of qualifiers and very limited invites would be the better system IMO

Why would you not want teams from all over the country in a "National" tournament?

[PDad]

Some facts for you AI:

PGF

12u 39 teams - 90% California
14u 48 teams -52% California
16u 63 teams -54% California
18HS 67 teams 45% California

Overall 57% of Teams at PGF were from California

24 States represented across all age levels (48%)- no teams from PR or other US territories

Facts? You got the team count wrong on all 4 age groups! LOL The real counts were: 12u - 40, 14u - 50, 16u - 64 and 18HS 68.

Including 12u in the overall numbers skews it a bit. PGF had trouble attracting non-Cal teams in the youngest age group in previous years too (i.e. 16u in 2010 and 14u in 2011), however the numbers improved each year after that.

My entire premise of the post was to give PGF to spread it's influence to more areas and perhaps increase the number of Qualifiers and the number of teams that attend those Qualifiers.

I'm confident PGF has evaluated the effectiveness of their qualifiers this past year and are making changes to improve them next year. Their primary goal is to attract the best teams from across the country, not the most diverse.

PGF needs local people to host and promote their qualifiers. Would you like to run one for New England?

[jonriv]

Some facts for you AI:

PGF

12u 39 teams - 90% California
14u 48 teams -52% California
16u 63 teams -54% California
18HS 67 teams 45% California

Overall 57% of Teams at PGF were from California

24 States represented across all age levels (48%)- no teams from PR or other US territories

Facts? You got the team count wrong on all 4 age groups! LOL The real counts were: 12u - 40, 14u - 50, 16u - 64 and 18HS 68.

Including 12u in the overall numbers skews it a bit. PGF had trouble attracting non-Cal teams in the youngest age group in previous years too (i.e. 16u in 2010 and 14u in 2011), however the numbers improved each year after that.

My entire premise of the post was to give PGF to spread it's influence to more areas and perhaps increase the number of Qualifiers and the number of teams that attend those Qualifiers.

I'm confident PGF has evaluated the effectiveness of their qualifiers this past year and are making changes to improve them next year. Their primary goal is to attract the best teams from across the country, not the most diverse.

PGF needs local people to host and promote their qualifiers. Would you like to run one for New England?

Sorry for the small misses there, I pulled it from the team list on the PGF website and did not match against actual participants(mea culpa)- quickly copied and pasted on excel- I believe they are directionally correct. I also am aware the 12u skews a bit. My point was not to show it to be Cali-centric, but merely to show how someone could perceive it to be. I agree that the numbers have improved and I believe the 18hs show the most improvement.

As far as running a New England tourney- I have neither the skill, expertise or time unfortunately, but would be happy to guide anyone from PGF to potential Tourney holders.

[PDad]

I disagree, there are teams at PGF and ASA that are just not up to par. If you look at the scores of all the games, there are scores that are not very competive.

You can't judge a team by a single game score and scores after the 1st rounds, winners and losers, aren't material because any team that won at least 1 game was 'up to par'.

Please, share with us which teams you feel were not up to par at PGF.

[Sftbll4ever]

I don't think it is right to point out teams that maybe won only 1 game total or even the few that didn't even win a game.

Fact is, there should not be that many invited berths. PGF has a lot of great teams that are now getting involved. Some of the invited teams have no reason to be invited while other still seem to produce year after year (whether PGF or ASA). We all know that ASA gives away many berths each year and currently, PGF is doing the same, but I think that PGF is still working to improve on a great product.

Having been to ASA as at the younger ages and again a couple of times at the older ages, I would prefer PGF for anything 14u and up. ASA at the younger ages is fun and the kids (sometimes) enjoy the traveling.

But when it all comes down to it.....who gives a crap which everyone thinks is better, just go to the one that is better for your family and your kid. My opinion is that PGF is the place to be. Having spent a TON of money at the younger ages traveling everywhere to qualify, I get tired of hearing about out of state teams complaining about the travel, we have all done it because that is all we had, now....there are choices. Enjoy them!!!

Besides, how many of the kids at ASA had the chance to tell their college coach that at night they had to wear a sweatshirt as it was getting cold? Mine did it all week.

[CULater]

I disagree, there are teams at PGF and ASA that are just not up to par. If you look at the scores of all the games, there are scores that are not very competive.

You can't judge a team by a single game score and scores after the 1st rounds, winners and losers, aren't material because any team that won at least 1 game was 'up to par'.

Please, share with us which teams you feel were not up to par at PGF.

I am not going to single a team out. But there were teams in Huntington Beach and Oklahoma City that were not competetive with the teams they played, and surely could not play with the teams that finished in the top 10 of either tournament.

[Trophy Hunter]

There was a Northeast Qualifer, 20 teams played in it.

PA Chaos won but didn't go to PGF, so the best team didn't attend.
NM Sundancers finished 2nd, Newton Rock and VA Legends also got berths.
NJ Intensity got a berth for hosting, apparently.

All went 1-2 in Bracket Play

Newton beat MN Sting (0-2), and lost to Explosion (4-2) and Southern Force (5-2)
Legends beat Vienna Stars (0-2), and lost to SGV Velocity (1-2) and Killer Bees (3-2)
NM Sundancers beat Carolina Elite, (0-2), and lost to WA Ladyhawks (4-2) and Teamsmith (1-2)
NJ Intensity beat TX Impact (0-2), and lost to Jets Gold (1-2) and American Pastime (2-2)

I don't know what "up to par" means, as it's subjective, but none of these beat a team that won a game, and 3 of them were the only team three others defeated. This isn't to knock the teams, but simply to demonstrate there was definitely a disparity, and that in this qualifier and more notably the TX qualifiers, the top teams did not attend PGF.

So Jonrivs point, that PGF has a ways to go in terms of brand awareness and stature in other parts of the country, is valid. If PGF enjoyed the same elite status across the country that they have in SoCal, the top teams (or winners of qualifiers, if you will) would not turn down their berths; and similarly PGF wouldn't have to invite/entice the known top teams (TNF, Southern Force, ECBullets) to attend the tournament.

PGF is certainly aware of the need to improve their market penetration, and as PDad noted there will likely be changes to the process. Unlike their #1 suckup, they understand it's a process that needs constant refinement and improvement, and aren't likely to sit on their laurels after hosting another very good tournament. Nice jobs, guys, keep it up!

[jonriv]

There was a Northeast Qualifer, 20 teams played in it.

PA Chaos won but didn't go to PGF, so the best team didn't attend.
NM Sundancers finished 2nd, Newton Rock and VA Legends also got berths.
NJ Intensity got a berth for hosting, apparently.

All went 1-2 in Bracket Play

Newton beat MN Sting (0-2), and lost to Explosion (4-2) and Southern Force (5-2)
Legends beat Vienna Stars (0-2), and lost to SGV Velocity (1-2) and Killer Bees (3-2)
NM Sundancers beat Carolina Elite, (0-2), and lost to WA Ladyhawks (4-2) and Teamsmith (1-2)
NJ Intensity beat TX Impact (0-2), and lost to Jets Gold (1-2) and American Pastime (2-2)

I don't know what "up to par" means, as it's subjective, but none of these beat a team that won a game, and 3 of them were the only team three others defeated. This isn't to knock the teams, but simply to demonstrate there was definitely a disparity, and that in this qualifier and more notably the TX qualifiers, the top teams did not attend PGF.

So Jonrivs point, that PGF has a ways to go in terms of brand awareness and stature in other parts of the country, is valid. If PGF enjoyed the same elite status across the country that they have in SoCal, the top teams (or winners of qualifiers, if you will) would not turn down their berths; and similarly PGF wouldn't have to invite/entice the known top teams (TNF, Southern Force, ECBullets) to attend the tournament.

PGF is certainly aware of the need to improve their market penetration, and as PDad noted there will likely be changes to the process. Unlike their #1 suckup, they understand it's a process that needs constant refinement and improvement, and aren't likely to sit on their laurels after hosting another very good tournament. Nice jobs, guys, keep it up!

It was a Northeast Quaifier(but was attended as if a Mid-atlantic) tourney. There were also no teams from New York(besides the Conklin raiders from upstate)- No on from LI or the Hudson Valley. Again, nothing in New England. I do agree with TH that PGF seems to have a knack for trying to adapt and improve

[PDad]

I disagree, there are teams at PGF and ASA that are just not up to par. If you look at the scores of all the games, there are scores that are not very competive.

You can't judge a team by a single game score and scores after the 1st rounds, winners and losers, aren't material because any team that won at least 1 game was 'up to par'.

Please, share with us which teams you feel were not up to par at PGF.

I am not going to single a team out. But there were teams in Huntington Beach and Oklahoma City that were not competetive with the teams they played, and surely could not play with the teams that finished in the top 10 of either tournament.

Congratulations - you didn't take the bait. I was testing you to see how far you would go to slam PGF.

It appears you've narrowed it down to 18u. I'd like to know the number of teams you identified. Depending on your vague criteria of "not competitive" and "surely could not play with" top 10 teams, that number could range from a few to a fairly large number. I personally would only consider a team as being not 'up to par' if they went 0-2 and lost by 8+ runs in both games - and I didn't see any that met my criteria in HB.

FWIW, I'd put my money on the top 10 at HB against the top 10 at OKC and I'd do likewise with the bottom 10 at HB against the lower half at OKC.