Booted Bats at PGF

[PDad]

Girls should be using the best bat that is legal for that event. It would be stupid to unilaterally use inferior equipment than your competition - and that applies to both the game at hand and showcasing purposes.

Thank God you weren't running the US during the Cold War - the USSR would be ruling the world if you were.

Then perhaps PGF should take the NCAA's lead and use those tighter standards-separate themselves even more from ASA. If their goal is to provide the platform for college scouts and to gave the fairest competition-seems like an easy solution, no?

PGF will do it if/when the college coaches indicate they would like it. Changing to the NCAA bat standard wouldn't make the competition any fairer - they'd just be using a different standard.

[fastpitchdad05]

I am all for checking bats carefully. We are talking about two different issues. The Phenix, the Easton Blue and Purple bats and the original Demarini D3s, naturally get hotter over time. It is not cheating to use one of those bats, but the governing bodies over time will outlaw them. If a bat is visibly rattling or damaged, it should be tossed. But I have seen too many isolated cases of bat rolling. Too many parents are tempted by the notion of increasing their player's hitting stats. In high school and regular tournament play, those players can use those bats because no one bothers to check. But in the national tourneys, many of these bats are tossed.

It is amazing to watch the difference in distance when a player has to use a regular version of their bat. College coaches are becoming much more careful to make sure such bats dont make their way into the team. After all, their careers are at stake.

It is in College

But this thread is about PGF

... Was just pointing out that the Phenix(and other bats) perhaps are not illegal at PGF, but in College- if these girls are looking to play in college, should they not be using the correct bats? ie- Girl hits a shot that just clears the fence using a Phenix, might a college coach think, "wow, that's caught on the warning track with a legal bat"

Girls should be using the best bat that is legal for that event. It would be stupid to unilaterally use inferior equipment than your competition - and that applies to both the game at hand and showcasing purposes.

Thank God you weren't running the US during the Cold War - the USSR would be ruling the world if you were.

This is the problem with having political and religious discussions on a softball board. The responses that jonriv is getting after the recent Chick-Fil-A subject feel like backlash from his comments there. I suspect Ginnepwo will receive the same treatment as well now that he has expressed an opposing opinion.

Never discuss politics or religion. Best way to get ostracized and lose "friends".

Man I can't wait until this next election is over.

[PDad]

... Was just pointing out that the Phenix(and other bats) perhaps are not illegal at PGF, but in College- if these girls are looking to play in college, should they not be using the correct bats? ie- Girl hits a shot that just clears the fence using a Phenix, might a college coach think, "wow, that's caught on the warning track with a legal bat"

Girls should be using the best bat that is legal for that event. It would be stupid to unilaterally use inferior equipment than your competition - and that applies to both the game at hand and showcasing purposes.

Thank God you weren't running the US during the Cold War - the USSR would be ruling the world if you were.

This is the problem with having political and religious discussions on a softball board. The responses that jonriv is getting after the recent Chick-Fil-A subject feel like backlash from his comments there. I suspect Ginnepwo will receive the same treatment as well now that he has expressed an opposing opinion.

I disagree with your conclusion - this had nothing to do with the Chick-fil-A thread. It was from JR reacting rudely to a gentle suggestion that he didn't follow what was posted and from his tiresome crusade to keep anyone from using the Phenix anywhere since his DD can't use hers in college games.

G will be fine as he is highly regarded by others. I don't remember anyone posting anything that was a personal attack.

Never discuss politics or religion. Best way to get ostracized and lose "friends".

Generally true and a good policy to live by.

Man I can't wait until this next election is over.

I hope you don't think there was something political or religious in my line about the USSR. It was simply an analogy about the absurdity of unilaterally weakening yourself in a conflict or competition.

[jonriv]

I did not feel Pdad was hitting me because of past views and my stance on the Chik-fil-a was rather neutral- I saw idiocy on all sides. He just likes to hit me because he does not agree with me and enjoys the banter- no harm. He makes some good points and I hope I make some too.


I do apologize to Spaz- my comment was nastier than intended(but I am sure Spaz can handle it) I was following what was said in the post, but I was not being to clear and he responded to that



I guess I reacted to the original post because it implied PGF was going after certain bats when it in fact looks like they just nailed a broken one

[PDad]

DD had her Phoenix (niw 14 mo. ago.)Booted before 18HS play this morning. Anyone else @ PGF have a bat tossed?
BTW it passed the ASA compression test last week? She said they(PGF BLUE) kicked it for a little rattle……

Back to the OP's question...

[watchtonsofsoftball]

So my question is, how do they mark the bats being tested, I've never payed attention? Ive seen teams using the same bat which is usually a red flag (im not saying always). So what if a team hides a bat and then just before first pitch puts it in with the rest of the bats? Is there anything stopping that? Then again if the entire team is hitting with the bat , even if legal, its going to get hot in a hurry. Thats a lot of break in. My dd has always had 2 game only bats and a practice bat. I was always trying to preserve the bats as long as possible ( It didnt work, I still bought a bat damn near every year).

[jonriv]

DD had her Phoenix (niw 14 mo. ago.)Booted before 18HS play this morning. Anyone else @ PGF have a bat tossed?
BTW it passed the ASA compression test last week? She said they(PGF BLUE) kicked it for a little rattle……

Back to the OP's question...

BTW- I love you avatar- I saw Carlin in College in '84 (a place for my stuff)

Do you think PGF will change their bat policy? (or go forbid ASA change theirs?)

[watchtonsofsoftball]

Jonriv,
You do know a rattle doesnt mean the bat is bad or broken right? It usually means it just got hotter
Sometimes its glue rattling and sometimes its material from the bat, thus making the wall alittle thinner and causing the ball to jump. Chances are that phenix is hitting bombs now (if it wasnt before). Id have someone open it up. If its just glue from the end cap, clean it out, and put back into use. If its bat material....well use your own judgment.

[AlwaysImprove]

This whole thread is whack, largely thanks to jonriv, the chief confuser.

1) PDad is correct. Everyone should be encouraged to use the best available bat allowed by the rules.
2) Removing the end cap would be considered a modification of the bat, and would be illegal. I suspect you already know this. As well as rolling and shaving. Most others justify these modifications as acceleration of normal usage pattern. Therein lies the inherent natural problem, these bat models have a known mechanism whereby they get hotter with usage. That is what should illegal.
3) Phenix and others on the NCAA bat list should already be on the ASA bat list. NCAA removed them because there were "known" models that routinely failed the 98mph standard after the bat was in use for a period. Despite all the spin and confusion on this issue, ASA adheres to that same 98mph standard. ASA turns a blind eye to the repeated model fails after break-in. Instead choosing to spin and twist about old bats, and no proof, and their ABI protocol already covers these bats. We see how ASA spin and twist maneuvers worked for their Nationals, and for the goofy USA national team stuff.
4) jonriv argues against removal of these bats when it makes ASA look bad, then picks up this issue argues in favor of bat removal in an attempt to spin this thread as bad for PGF.
5) ASA + jonriv believe if they keep the spin tight enough, everyone will stay confused enough on this issue and they can get by doing nothing.

[jonriv]

3) Phenix was never removed from NCAA list- it was never included(as were many models that may or may not have been hot) NCAA list was made up of bats submitted by bat MFG. They only sent their current models. (confirmed by contacts at Demarini and Anderson) We all know of many models that got hotter as they broke in- you are right in that the ASA label does not fight that and they have really not addressed that issue. On-site compression test should be accurate I would think-right?(OP stated the Phenix his DD had passed)

I agree with you that ASA(and PGF) should follow the NCAA's lead on this. I am very surprised that High Schools have not followed the NCAA either.

I also agree with you on the altered bat


Do we know how long it rattled?