Why are so few berths being given at PGF Qualifiers?

[fastpitchdad05]

2011 HS Division
37 out of 67 from out of state

2011 16U Division
26 out of 64 from out of state.

2011 14U Division
15 out of 42 from out of state.

Not sure where you get 90%.

Ok that was just an estimate off the top of my head so I'll give you that but still according to your figures above we still have a total of 95 teams from cali and the rest of the "nation" has 77 teams now I'm not a genius or anything but how is this considered a national?

Is 95 out of 173 teams (55%) really an acceptable percentage for a national you ask...

Well it was good enough for ASA when they were starting their 18 Gold natls and then some:

1996 - 24 of 36 teams from CA (67%)
https://www.asasoftball.com/tournaments ... p?tid=1064

[CULater]

2011 HS Division
37 out of 67 from out of state

2011 16U Division
26 out of 64 from out of state.

2011 14U Division
15 out of 42 from out of state.

Not sure where you get 90%.

Ok that was just an estimate off the top of my head so I'll give you that but still according to your figures above we still have a total of 95 teams from cali and the rest of the "nation" has 77 teams now I'm not a genius or anything but how is this considered a national?

Is 95 out of 173 teams (55%) really an acceptable percentage for a national you ask...

Well it was good enough for ASA when they were starting their 18 Gold natls and then some:

1996 - 24 of 36 teams from CA (67%)
https://www.asasoftball.com/tournaments ... p?tid=1064

Why would you bring up a stat from 1996 when ASA Gold first began to back your point? I thought PGF was created because ASA was not listening to its constituants.


I found this on another thread.

ASA

2007 - 33% from California
2008 - 28%
2009 - 25%
2010 - 25%
2011 - 25%

PGF

2010 - 49% from California
2011 - 40%


A conspiracy theorist could argue that PGF was really started because ASA was reducing the number of California teams at the Gold national tournament. I am not in that boat, but the numbers are kind of intersting.

[jonriv]

2011 HS Division
37 out of 67 from out of state

2011 16U Division
26 out of 64 from out of state.

2011 14U Division
15 out of 42 from out of state.

Not sure where you get 90%.

Ok that was just an estimate off the top of my head so I'll give you that but still according to your figures above we still have a total of 95 teams from cali and the rest of the "nation" has 77 teams now I'm not a genius or anything but how is this considered a national?

Is 95 out of 173 teams (55%) really an acceptable percentage for a national you ask...

Well it was good enough for ASA when they were starting their 18 Gold natls and then some:

1996 - 24 of 36 teams from CA (67%)
https://www.asasoftball.com/tournaments ... p?tid=1064

Why would you bring up a stat from 1996 when ASA Gold first began to back your point? I thought PGF was created because ASA was not listening to its constituants.


I found this on another thread.

ASA

2007 - 33% from California
2008 - 28%
2009 - 25%
2010 - 25%
2011 - 25%

PGF

2010 - 49% from California
2011 - 40%


A conspiracy theorist could argue that PGF was really started because ASA was reducing the number of California teams at the Gold national tournament. I am not in that boat, but the numbers are kind of intersting.

Is this Apples to Oranges- since ASA has more teams at it(one of PGFs gripes against it?) What is the % of invites (California vs others)?

[CULater]

The difference between number of teams at ASA and PGF for the Gold/18HS divisions is small. Prior to 2012 ASA Gold had 64 teams. PGF had I think 61 in 2010 and 67 in 2011, which in fact is more than ASA.

[fastpitchdad05]

2011 HS Division
37 out of 67 from out of state

2011 16U Division
26 out of 64 from out of state.

2011 14U Division
15 out of 42 from out of state.

Not sure where you get 90%.

Ok that was just an estimate off the top of my head so I'll give you that but still according to your figures above we still have a total of 95 teams from cali and the rest of the "nation" has 77 teams now I'm not a genius or anything but how is this considered a national?

Is 95 out of 173 teams (55%) really an acceptable percentage for a national you ask...

Well it was good enough for ASA when they were starting their 18 Gold natls and then some:

1996 - 24 of 36 teams from CA (67%)
https://www.asasoftball.com/tournaments ... p?tid=1064

Why would you bring up a stat from 1996 when ASA Gold first began to back your point? I thought PGF was created because ASA was not listening to its constituants.


I found this on another thread.

ASA

2007 - 33% from California
2008 - 28%
2009 - 25%
2010 - 25%
2011 - 25%

PGF

2010 - 49% from California
2011 - 40%


A conspiracy theorist could argue that PGF was really started because ASA was reducing the number of California teams at the Gold national tournament. I am not in that boat, but the numbers are kind of intersting.

CULater,
The biggest gripe that I've seen so far about PGF (and what this particular discussion was about) is that it is CA dominated, with a close second going to to PGF handing out auto invites. My point was that ASA and PGF in their infancy were silmilar in regards to the number of CA teams attending, although they got there thru different methods.

I agree that a conspiracy theory could be started regarding the shrinking number of CA teams. Actually, I'm not so sure it is a conspiracy. I'd have to look back at the original Gary Haning PGF thread on HB, but I do believe he says that one of the reasons for breaking away and forming PGF was to try and ensure that as many as possible of the very best/elite teams made it to their national championship, regardless from which region that team hailed.

If you think about it, this probably is what really upsets many teams about PGF. Knowing that their sub-par or average team has a very small chance (much smaller than the ASA format) of making the PGF finals vs what they were used to with only needing to compete against teams from their region to get there.

By the way, I've stated it many times...my DD's team falls in the probably-not-good-enough category. But I have supported PGF knowing this.

The worst part of PGF, if it is a complete success and establishes itself as THE true national championship, is that it supports a "rich get richer" model. I believe the division between the upper level orgs and the middle to lower tier orgs will become greater because kids in each region will migrate to the better teams more than ever before, feeling (or more accurately their parents feeling) that this is the only way to get to PGF.

You'll likely see the left-out orgs either disappear or combine. We'll see...

[SDTitans]

Graduating College is what matters..

[CULater]

fastpitchdad05 - I agree with most of your points, with the exception of the qualifiers. If you look at the previous 2 year's qualifiers, I am not sure there were many teams from California that traveled to PGF qualifiers, with the exception maybe being the Arizona qualifier. PGF will need to keep the qualifiers with the appearance of being local. If you were to have 2 California teams qualify from each of the Indiana and Minnesota qualifiers and 3 more from the NE qualifier, you won't get as much participation from teams in those areas in the future. Because like you said, they have a greater shot at playing at ASA Gold.

The main issue I have with PGF is that they appear to change course midstream with regards to invited teams versus returning berths earned by finishing in top 8 (12 teams). Originally the invited teams were going to go away after year two and it was going to only be those 12 teams that earned return berths from the 2011 PGF national, no big deal. But then they went and invited the top 4 teams from ASA Gold (Funny I thought no good teams went there) and then invited I think 18 more teams half of which are California teams. IMHO this was done, because they cannot have a disproportionate amount of teams qualify at SoCal qualifiers, meaning the SoCal qualifier gets 8 berths while the SE qualifer gets 3.

Obviously they can run their event however they want, but changing things midstream to fit their agenda, doesn't make me think PGF is really all that different than any other organization.

[dodgerblue]

PGF and ASA Nationals is great but the showcases leading up to nationals are more important recruiting wise. We attended PGF and scouts are there babysitting for the most part and not actually recruiting in my opinion. This is my last year doing this and I could care less if we attend or not it's mainly for the organizations reputations more than anything.

[superfan]

If you look at the current week 3 NCAA top 25 D1 poll, all but 3 teams are riddled with Californians. Seven of the top 25 have 10 or more Californians on their rosters. Maybe an indication of why there are so many California teams with an earned birth/invite to PGF Nationals?!?

My guess is that the PGF Board is interested in quality not quantity. I am sure they are trying to figure out a way to reach that goal from all corners of the USA. It seems like a very daunting task and one I'm sure will take a bit more trial and error.

I would prefer the births awarded in relation to how many teams enter in each specific qualifier opposed to having a fixed number for each qualifier.

Hawaii qualifier offers 1 berth for each age division and not surprising they have 0 registered.

[1prouddad]

IMHO this was done, because they cannot have a disproportionate amount of teams qualify at SoCal qualifiers, meaning the SoCal qualifier gets 8 berths while the SE qualifer gets 3.

CUL - Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think any So Cal Qualifier is giving 8 berths. 16's are getting 6, 18's & 14's are getting 4, and 12's are getting 3.
Most of the other qualifiers are only getting 2 or 3, while the Hawaii Qualifier is only getting 1 berth for each division and only teams from Hawaii are eligible to play in it.