PGF 2012 12U

[jonriv]

Wait, NO TEAM IN 12U????? It's what I figured!!!!
And, if you want MY opinion, it seems that PGF may be a little about the money also, how many berths did they "GIVE" this year in 12U???? What, worried not enough teams will honestly EARN a berth, therefore possibly losing interest or entry fees????? Come on man, you cant honestly believe that neither one is about the money!! They are both businesses, it's what they do....and, you can't honestly be that naive....to think that if you don't earn a PGF berth you are a "B" team?? What about the given births....that don't have to earn it?????

Ok, let's say they are both businesses. In all fairness PGF is more of a 'business' than ASA.

I like how PGF runs their tournaments. They are close to a major airport (actually 3 major airports). They keep the teams to 64. They run the tournament at a fast pace, like 4 days. They hold it an area where there are tons of hotels. They charge their fees up front. Instead of asking 15 bucks a head a day, which ends up discouraging grandparents, they get one fee up front.

As far as berths, I hope PGF continues to use berths to make sure they are getting the most competitive teams into their 64 team bracket. ASA gives out a ton of berths. They end up with about 100 teams that are not even competitive.

Anyway, you like the way ASA runs their business, I like the PGF runs theirs. To each their own.

Hope you have fun in Moline. It is pretty there.

Not sure how giving out berths makes it more competitive??? Qualifying would be much more competitive. I wish PGF was at the point they only needed to give berths to top ten placers.

How many teams have placed repeatedly on the bottom at PGF?(I do not know the answer) Are repeat offenders still getting invites?

If you look and understand, it is pretty straightforward. They wanted teams from South and East, so South and East teams got berths last year. Now you see teams like the EC Bullets, a major org in GA area, putting videos up which basically state all the competitive teams play PGF. That is a great way to use a berth to make your tournament more competitive.

Take last year when no teams showed for Florida qualifier, but Colorado and Oregon were very competitive. For instance a team from our area, the Ladyhawks, was one from a berth in Colorado and one from a berth in Oregon. PGF gave them one of the Florida berths. They went on to be 9th. Another great way of giving a berth to a competitive team.

BTW in a 160 team tournament ASA will give out around 100 berths. And they aren't giving the berths to teams 1-60, they are giving them to 60-160. And they do it for one reason. To get teams into town, and make more money.

The difference is that PGF guys are coaching teams. They play all the other major teams. They go watch teams play. They hear about a great team, they try to play them or get a chance to go watch them. So they actually know very well who are the good teams and who is on the bubble. So they have a great idea on who to try and get into their tournament.

ASA is umpires.

Don't they run the risk of seeming clubby or clichish? Are they also not limiting themselves to that circle of teams they are familiar with(even if they are good) The Gold circuit currently only has a smattering of teams from the Northeast and are not a full and accurate representation of the teams here. There are many very good teams(and I assume in other regions too) that for various reasons never venture too far beyond their region. Not by any means saying the ASA model is the right one either by any means

[CULater]

Jonriv - Well put

[AlwaysImprove]

<snip>

Don't they run the risk of seeming clubby or clichish? Are they also not limiting themselves to that circle of teams they are familiar with(even if they are good) The Gold circuit currently only has a smattering of teams from the Northeast and are not a full and accurate representation of the teams here. There are many very good teams(and I assume in other regions too) that for various reasons never venture too far beyond their region. Not by any means saying the ASA model is the right one either by any means

The umpires were way more clickish about all of this. They rewarded teams that spent money with ASA local.

On the PGF side it could be clubby, but it is not. For instance in the North East you have Jersey Intensity. Kevin O'Donnell is a great coach, very outgoing and knows tons of teams and tons of players. So PGF uses that resource to find out who else in that area is competitive. If you know Kevin, you know he is going to help make sure competitive teams from his area are going to get a shot.

Same with the southern force guys or the EC Bullets guys. Just like the Ladyhawks here in our area. They would much rather a local competitive team got a shot, than someone from Cal or another part of the country.

Now, this could create a situation where that local guy does not like someone so he fails to mention them. That is completely easy to cross check. If a team is competitive, they are eventually going to play someone else that is competitive. Let's continue to pick on Kevin, and say that team is from the NorthEast. Eventually that competitive team is going to play someone besides Kevin's team, let's say they go to Colorado and beat some well known Tx and CA teams. Well there are going to be a lot of people going back to Kevin and asking him why he is not making sure those guys are at PGF.

Another check is kids going to colleges. If there is a competitive team, they are going to start to place kids at college. If a team is placing a lot of kids at bigger schools and they have not been mentioned by the local guys, the local guys are going to loose trust. In other words it is not just about teams it is about players. If you have competitive players people are going to know about them. The local guy not mentioning them is going to hurt him more than the up and coming team.

The main difference between PGF and ASA, when it really cooks down, is that PGF considers coaches, teams and players a valuable part of the softball ecosystem. ASA considers umpires as the only relevant part.

[jonriv]

Always- your defense seems to be bashing ASA. I am no ASA supporter. Here in the Northeast ASA's fastpitch org. sucks. The state championship is a joke. PONY (and now USSSA) are running rings around them as far as organization and membership(which shows how pathetic they are)

The Jersey Intensity is a great organization(although I think they are banned from TCS events???) I do not know Coach O'Donnell but the success of his program and the number of players that have moved on to the next level speak for themselves. What motivation does he have to search beyond his comfort level???? He is going to recommend the teams that play in the same circles as his team. He is going to recommend teams that he knows well enough that he will not be embarrassed by the recommendation. In fact, it is probably in his program's interest to keep that number of teams small. My DD played for a very well established TB program with an over 30 year history- none of her teams ever played the Intensity. I am sure, as I mentioned before, there are many very good teams that for whatever reason are not on PGFs radar- I was just making a suggestion that from the "outside" it does have an appearance of clubbiness and that if their true intentions are to seek the BEST teams they might need to think outside the box and beyond their comfort zone. Most of the country's TB programs and infrastructure are very different from what is found in California, Texas and even Florida. I wish we did.......

[AlwaysImprove]

Not really bashing ASA. Just PGF does not make a lot of sense unless you understand how ASA operate.

Not really saying Kevin specifically. I have met him a couple of times, and he seems like a genuine guy and has the larger community in mind. Really, just used him as a name.

In our area, in most areas of the country there are some very knowledgeable coaches. They typically have a good team, are well established programs and far enough along to know competition is a great thing. Competition on the team level and competition for players.

They always seem more than happy to give someone a hand. If the first guy does not work, then there is usually another 2 or 3 that will help.

Anyway, it may seem clubbish, but they do seem to be getting great teams from across the country to participate. The teams that compete in PGF tend to grow into the stronger programs.

That is by design within PGF. Create stronger more competitive more repeatable teams. That way parents that are looking for an A team understand that there are certain organizations that regularly produce in an area.

[4girlsmom]

Congrats to both Case Batbusters 99 and Firecrackers La Mirada for their
berths to Premier in 12u.

Who received the last berth to PGF with the final 4 in the losers bracket?
Lionettes, Athletics, Firecrackers HB or Power Surge?

How was the final berth determined with the rainout?

[J stilo]

I believe they were giving an extra berth to both FC and Powersurge since they were the last two teams to go into the losers bracket.
Don't make your travel plans based on my info though

I believe PS99 and lionettes completed their game with PS99 coming out on top earning a berth

[confidencekills]

Lionettes and PS99 only got thru one inning before it was called.

[cent]

The berths went to Power Surge 99 and Firecrackers Davis. The tie-breaker was who stayed in the Winner's Bracket the longest and both Power Surge 99 and Firecrackers Davis were in the Semi Finals of the Winner's Bracket. So it was decided to give 4 berths instead of three due to the rain. This was how it was explained to me at the fields by the tournament directors.

[J stilo]

why wouldn't they let them play it out being that they're all local teams?